 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Defender Puma 2.4 Overheating |
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| Bergos Member Since: 08 Aug 2015 Location: Somewhere in Portugal Posts: 95   
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I decided to start a new thread and describe my experiences with the Puma overheating problem.
First thing is that without a digital temp display it is impossible to notice overheating as the standard gauge remains horizontal until 115C, where the ECU cuts the power. So the overheating would be experienced as intermittent power loss. I bought my Puma in summer 2015. The car was great and I had no problems. No matter how hard I was pushing the car the fuel usage was 10 litres/100 km. I've made ~5000 km from Poland to Lisbon, then a 2 trips from Lisbon to Morocco (around 1200 km off-road). No problems noticed. After the second trip I started to see increased fuel usage on the highway. In summer 2016 I have installed A/C and I made a trip from Lisbon to Warsaw. No problems but the fuel economy was decreased to ~12,5l/100km. On the way back from Warsaw to Lisbon I had 2 or 3 cases of intermittent fuel cut-off (summer 2016). In April 2017 I went to Mauritania. Before I put a full external roll-cage and full shields on the bottom. On a highway up-hill in Morocco I had another power loss. I connected the Nanocom and realised that the cause is the engine temperature reaching 115 C. On road it was quite rare but when driving on sand I had to stop the car every 15 minutes and let it cool down. The temperature was dropping quite fast to 88-90C. After this I was almost always driving with the Nanocom connected and I was observing temperatures above 100C while driving with highway speeds. Any hill would push the temperatures into 110-115C range. Changing the thermostat for a new one did not resolve the problem. I have noticed that while the top of the radiator is hot/warm, the bottom is cold (really cold). I've done the block test with the CO2 in coolant test. I would say it was inconclusive/negative - the blue liquid in the lower chamber was turning a little greenish while in the upper chamber it remained blue. This summer, 2017 I went from Lisbon to Paris and the trip was a nightmare until, in France, I changed the thermostat to PEL500110 (82C). After this the temperatures where still high on up-hill but rarely reached 115C. The fuel economy on highway remained in the 13-15 litres per 100 km 
After the trip I put a Nakatanenga visco spacer. I don't see any significant improvement with that. One more observation. If I drive on a highway and the temperature is let's say 100C, I take my foot off the gas pedal, the temp starts to rise to 105C. After I accelerate again, it drops to 95. More or less. The dash gauge never went up but once, when I forgot to close the coolant reservoir and the coolant went all out. This is because it is digital and 70-115C range is considered normal. Now... what is your guess and/or experience? - this is normal, just drive the car and enjoy, - it seems that the radiator is clogged - change the radiator, - it seems that the watr pump is dying - change the water pump, - it seems that the lower coolant hose is collapsing - put a new hose, - your CHT sensor is crazy - change the sensor, - all above is a waste of money - your head gasket is broken and needs changing. Thank you. Bergos LR Defender 110 HT 2007 (2.4 Puma) https://www.facebook.com/LR.Wanderlust/ |
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13th Sep 2017 1:06am |
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| LR90XS2011 Member Since: 05 Apr 2011 Location: bickenhill Posts: 3641  
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As the problems started after A/C fit is this the issue, what AC did you fit, is it original LR equipment?.
What model defender have you got is it a 2.4 or 2.2 DEFENDER 90 TDCI XS, I hope everyone is well and your land rovers make you happy |
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13th Sep 2017 4:47am |
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| LandRoverAnorak Member Since: 17 Jul 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 11324
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Possibly a failed viscous fan coupling? Radiator blocked externally? Radiator blocked internally? Darren
110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia |
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13th Sep 2017 7:49am |
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| zsd-puma Member Since: 09 Aug 2016 Location: Kent Posts: 2720 
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it sounds like the problems only started when you installed A/C?
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13th Sep 2017 8:51am |
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| Bergos Member Since: 08 Aug 2015 Location: Somewhere in Portugal Posts: 95
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It was this kit: http://www.brit-car.co.uk/product.php/1026...te_def_07_
Of course the a/c radiator and fan are an additional restriction in front of the radiator. Also the coolant was lost and refilled during installation. But the problems started to show up only 7000 km later... So I really doubt if it is the a/c. Also if it is on or off doesn't make any difference. Bergos LR Defender 110 HT 2007 (2.4 Puma) https://www.facebook.com/LR.Wanderlust/ |
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13th Sep 2017 9:49am |
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| Bergos Member Since: 08 Aug 2015 Location: Somewhere in Portugal Posts: 95
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The problem appears at high speed so the viscous fan is not an issue. When parked I see the fan kicks in after a while and runs fast. Externally the radiator seems to be clean. Internally - who knows? Changing the radiator is one of my options. Bergos LR Defender 110 HT 2007 (2.4 Puma) https://www.facebook.com/LR.Wanderlust/ |
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13th Sep 2017 9:54am |
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| Bergos Member Since: 08 Aug 2015 Location: Somewhere in Portugal Posts: 95
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Thank you for your reply
Was the head gasket a blind shot or were you able to diagnose it before taking the head off? What was the diagnosis? Bergos LR Defender 110 HT 2007 (2.4 Puma) https://www.facebook.com/LR.Wanderlust/ |
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16th Sep 2017 10:39am |
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| nero110 Member Since: 04 Apr 2012 Location: Stuttgart Posts: 5  
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Head gasket was the only link between cooling system and pressure build up. Pressure was also kept up after engine cooled down. I mean pressure increase was not only due to thermal expansion.
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16th Sep 2017 12:57pm |
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| nero110 Member Since: 04 Apr 2012 Location: Stuttgart Posts: 5
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Maybe give a try to a new visco fan before to start putting the head down. Evan on the highway, the fan make a good contribution to the air flow through the cooler.
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16th Sep 2017 1:51pm |
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| Bergos Member Since: 08 Aug 2015 Location: Somewhere in Portugal Posts: 95
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I understand that you don't get higher temperatures then 93c even with high engine load, right? For example climbing a hill at 120km/h in 6th gear during Italian summer. Can you please confirm this? Thank you. Bergos LR Defender 110 HT 2007 (2.4 Puma) https://www.facebook.com/LR.Wanderlust/ |
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17th Sep 2017 1:42pm |
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| zsd-puma Member Since: 09 Aug 2016 Location: Kent Posts: 2720
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I would try washing the radiator by puttting a medium pressure garden hose on it from the fan side and see if it flushes any mud out. (don't use a pressure washer as it damages the fins)
If that doesn't work, then try some cooling system flush and back flush the radiator outlets with a hose. |
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17th Sep 2017 5:32pm |
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| nero110 Member Since: 04 Apr 2012 Location: Stuttgart Posts: 5
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Under normal driving max. temp in this area. After long hill climbing the temp goes up another 2-3 Kelvin while reducing load. But this peak is for 5-10 seconds only. I assume it is due to the missing cooling effect from the injected fuel or less air mass from turbo charger pressure goes down at low load. But engine still quite hot and therefore the residual heat cause the head temp. going up. I typically do not go faster then 110 km/h (GPS). Uphill even a little slower. And I now use more often the 5th gear at higher rev. then squeezing the 6th gear. But travel-ready with five people. On top with Frontrunner Rack + big alu box, Foxwing, ... Fuel consumption around 10-12 l/100km. |
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17th Sep 2017 9:13pm |
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| Bergos Member Since: 08 Aug 2015 Location: Somewhere in Portugal Posts: 95
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I have a Brand New Theory!
And it goes like this: When the A/C was added to the car in 2016 the accessory belt was changed. The A/C kit came with 2 belts - one was slightly longer. The mechanic put on the longer one (7PK3001) and he didn't even try the other one. Click image to enlarge After the initial 5000-6000 km the belt started to slip, causing the water pump to slip at higher revs. I've looked at my Nanocom recordings and I see that the average charging voltage in 2016 was 14V and now it dropped to 12.5V, which could confirm my beautiful, Brand New Theory. Unless the alternator is on its way out too... My online research results are following - 7PK2958/PQS500600 (shorter) is for Puma 2.4 (7A000001 -> A999999) and 7PK3001/ LR031360 (longer) is dedicated for Puma 2.2 (CA000001 ->). Unfortunately I will be able to confirm it only by the end of October... I cannot wait to get my hands on this... I will keep you updated. Bergos LR Defender 110 HT 2007 (2.4 Puma) https://www.facebook.com/LR.Wanderlust/ Last edited by Bergos on 3rd Oct 2017 12:05am. Edited 7 times in total |
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26th Sep 2017 1:24am |
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| LR90XS2011 Member Since: 05 Apr 2011 Location: bickenhill Posts: 3641
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with any new problem is always best to look at the last related maintenance of modification done before anything else DEFENDER 90 TDCI XS,
I hope everyone is well and your land rovers make you happy |
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26th Sep 2017 5:27am |
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