Naks wrote:

According to ASPW, you shouldn't

lightning wrote:

Personally l think the Grenadier is more suited for Overlanding because it's basically designed for that purpose with all the on-road compromises that brings, such as the steering setup.

Not that the Defender won't do it, of course it will. But the new Defender has been designed to excel on-road which is where most of them live, and also be capable off road.

The Grenadier is the other way round, designed to excel off-road and acceptable on road, very much like the old Defender.

l've taken my new Defender off road and also driven the Grenadier. Only on tarmac though.

BruceT wrote:

Agree 100%. I also think it will also all depend on what you consider as Overland Travel.

For the average person it is 2 to 6 weeks of traveling. For others it's living out of your vehicle for years.



He is busy kissing butt with Grenadier in the hope he will get one for free or a long term test vehicle. It's what he does.
Watch how his attitude towards them will change if they dont kiss his butt or give him what he wants.

BruceT wrote:

I have done close to 75k kms of overlanding far off the tar in mine without any issues. (see my Youtube channel).
Yes there are some irritations and silly/stupid features but there are ways of working around them.

Bruce slightly off subject, but important for setting up your wagon for overlanding did you
manage to swap the 18" Compomotives over from the D240 to your D300, looked like them in some of
your later videos?? yet another pommie bar steward down under

MY20 110 P400 SE Defender
MY10 3.0 RR Sport

stevemfr wrote:

XplusYplusZ wrote:

Whilst field spannering and some gaffa tape will go a long way, the reliance on electronics in modern vehicles is impossible to deny. You can't always fix it yourself, and a local mechanic may also struggle if some circuitry fries.

I think the New Defender has been incredibly well designed, and speaking from experience, can handle a hell of a lot more than you would expect. But I would not trust my life with it.

I've not posted much here yet, so many of you may not yet know me though there are also names I recognize from other forums. As I have been a part of GAP Diagnostic from the beginning and I enjoy overlanding, I have spent some time dwelling on exactly this question. And I've had several very relevant experiences and formed some very clear opinions on this topic. So if I sound like I am lecturing, please forgive me.

First, cars today are considerably more reliable than cars were 30-40 years ago when electronics began to expand beyond the car radio. And they are cleaner, use much less fuel, produce much more power, and are much, much safer than they were back then. This is something that is often forgotten. Especially critical systems such as the engine or transmission management. Where LR's have failed regularly since the introduction of the P38 Range Rover has been in peripheral systems. You could generally still drive, it just wasn't as nice or comfortable - 2 notable exceptions being the alarm/immobilizer and the early air suspension.

And as far as repairs, especially field repairs go, I don't believe they have become more complex - though you do need additional tools (such as the IIDTool ) and information (a digital workshop manual). 35 years ago you had to be able to, say, replace or repair a faulty carburetor, today you have to be able to use a diagnostic tool and look up the repair procedure. The actual spannering hasn't changed terribly. In some ways it's actually become easier: 35 years ago a sputtering diesel meant you had to know how the system operated to even begin to attempt a repair, today the diagnostic system will tell you where to look - or sometimes even exactly what the problem is. My L322 Range Rover went into 'limp-home' mode in eastern Turkey a number of years ago. I was able to read the fault code, determine exactly what the problem was (worn injectors), clear the code and continue on my merry way in a matter of 15 minutes. In this case, it was possible to continue without a physical repair. But if necessary, I could have gone to a local garage and had them do the repairs. And there would have been no guessing and hoping that the mechanics knew what they were doing and would be able to find the problem.

If you are going to go to really remote places, you always need a plan for emergencies - but you would have needed that just the same 40 years ago. There was always some element of risk in traveling off road, be it financial in that you have to have a vehicle recovered from a "remote" green lane in Wales or be it to life and limb if you are depending on your vehicle for travel north of the arctic circle in Lappland. This has not changed. But the risks used to be greater than they are today.

All of this is what lead me (actually lead all of us at GAP) to become involved in Land Rover vehicle diagnostics. I have not hesitated to take my past LR's overlanding and will not hesitate to take my L663 Defender overlanding. But I will (try to) be ready for contingencies.

@Bruce - love your channel. I discovered it several months ago and have been checking back regularly. My wife and I had originally planned to drive from here (Alsace) down to Tanzania to visit friends and then on to SA once the children were no longer young. This was 15 years ago. But with the way the political situations have developed, we'd have trouble getting through northern Africa without crossing through some rather unsafe areas (and that is not the type of adventure I seek in my travels) and our friends had to leave Tanzania. So we are now planning to fly down and rent a vehicle...

mopadzi wrote:

...Beautifully written....

Well thank you!

If you are looking only for very basic fault code reading and some live values, I believe the iCarsoft covers your vehicle. I am not 100% sure though, so please don't quote me on this. There are also other units in the GBP200-300 range that do a bit more, but nothing that comes close to our level of functionality with the IIDTool (and I am really not just tooting my own horn... check https://www.disco4.com/forum/). Our coverage is complete for both the new Defender and the D4. The only vehicles we don't cover are the older P38 Range Rover, Disco2, and Defender TD5. We do cover the Puma Defender TD4.

When we were developing the IIDTool, 3 of the big goals we achieved by using a smartphone / tablet app rather than a unit with some sort of built-in display was quality of display, cost effectiveness and portability. The IIDTool is slightly larger than a box of matches and needs no extra power source, etc. And adding a display that would have offered quality anything like a newer smartphone display would have easily doubled the cost - without having programmed in features such as graphs that you can pinch and zoom, etc. Plus you would either have an external power source or you'd have to make sure the diagnostic device's internal battery was charged.

Out of curiosity: why do you not like the idea of using a smartphone or tablet app?

There is one thing to be aware of: if you'd like to use the special programming functions such as CCF activations or changing the suspension height on both the D4 and the new Defender, you'll need a socend VIN license (see our shop). All other diagnostic functions are VIN lock free and the IIDTool can be used on any Land Rover we cover.

I hope this helps. Please let us know if you have any other questions. 
RRC 2Dr, RRC 4Dr,
P38, and 2 L322s,
2 FL1s and a L663 on the way