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ob1conobe

Member Since: 10 Jan 2014
Location: Gloucestershire
Posts: 52

2014 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Alpine White

Regarding the issue of not getting up to temp, this thread should be of use:

https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic71379.html

17th Dec 2022 1:07pm

hornet

Member Since: 04 Jan 2010
Location: Western Europe
Posts: 361

I think the thread starter should indeed take a closer look at the temperature sensor (CHT), the short glowtime suggests an incorrect temperature reading.

It certainly doesn't belong here but is not completely off topic, but I have made a few attempts with a new viscous fan. I have also installed a temperature sensor in the oil pan, the thermostat is working properly. I have no catalyst and no EGR.
These are my long-term observations:

1. fuel consumption drops by approx. 5% when driving without the viscous fan. I noted 10% drop in consumption when I removed my failed viscous fan. I think you really only need the viscous fan at very warm temperatures and higher load, I read 90°C oiltemperature at 35°C outside temperature and load. So nothing to worry about.
2. the viscous fan ensures that the oil temperature never reaches 80°C when driving overland, but actually hovers around 60°C (outside temperatures around freezing point). It is never standing still and therefore cooling the hole time. Electric driven thing would be much better.
3. with the viscous fan removed and the same outside temperatures, the warm-up phase improves and you now reach more than 70°C
4. only strenuous motorway journeys cause the oil temperature to rise to 80°.

The setting of the heater plays a major role; you have to heat moderately so as not to draw too much energy from the cooling water and thus also cool down the oil.

Conclusion: In winter and in the transitional period, I drive without a viscous fan. At temperatures around freezing point, the only way to achieve reasonable oil temperatures is to cover the radiator.

Notes:
Leaving the engine running (cold start) for the purpose of de-icing causes very high wear of the engine and ensures oil dilution through fuel intake, which in turn affects the oil viscosity and results in wear. The 2.2l machines are particularly at risk here. I recommend doing a used oil analysis every time you change the oil.
There are auxiliary heaters for these cases and they work fine.
I run RAVENOL NDT Nord Duty Truck SAE 5W-40 oil which makes the engine run more quietly and has actually made it more rev-happy. I have a very mild tuning from BAS

22nd Dec 2022 7:45am

Dean Watson

Member Since: 17 Jul 2011
Location: Derby
Posts: 254

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS DCPU Stornoway Grey

Ok

so an update on this , further cold weather today and further issues starting , turns over well but took a long time to catch and sounded lumpy

No issues when hot
new battery
no stored fault codes
different diesel gauge fill up
ran a tail of injector cleaner through it as well
its fairly slow to come to temp would be the only other issues with
only done 32k

I have 2.4 100 as well , this starts fine no issues , glow plugs stay on for at least 6/7 sec on the 2.4 barely 2/3 sec s on the 2.2

I am thinking some kind of temp sensor not pulling in the glow plugs for long enough

any more ideas or what to check?

17th Jan 2023 2:10pm

Dean Watson

Member Since: 17 Jul 2011
Location: Derby
Posts: 254

another update

there is no cht sensor on 2.2 just coolant temp sensor checked this on cold start and temp was 2 degc so about right,

no fault codes
no blown fuses
glow light stays on for 3 sec max
turn key again and it briefly flashes then goes off

still poor starting

help!

23rd Jan 2023 10:39am

Angus_Beef

Member Since: 30 Apr 2015
Location: Oslo
Posts: 434

2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Corris Grey

Click image to enlarge Roaming around 🇳🇴🇨🇭

23rd Jan 2023 11:12am

Dean Watson

Member Since: 17 Jul 2011
Location: Derby
Posts: 254

is that right, where is it then ? has anyone got a colour pic?
on 2.4 its down back of the engine connector is on top in line with oil filler

nothing there on mine uk spec 2015 ht?

23rd Jan 2023 11:19am

Rosco

Member Since: 03 Dec 2010
Location: Burntwood
Posts: 1833

2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Montalcino Red

keith wrote:
Rosco wrote:
I've had the same issue the last couple of mornings, but I know I've got at least one glowplug that has come up as not working on a fault code before, so I've always just put it down to that.

I have recently replaced the battery so I've ruled that out from my issue

What new battery did you replace it with Rosco?
I need one also being 5 years old and slow to start.

Keith

Keith apologies I've only just spotted this.

I've fitted an Yuasa HSB020 from Halfords. They had an old price on the shelf which was cheaper than the 019, which thankfully they honoured, less a 10% discount as an AA member (a scheme which I think they've now dropped) plus a further 8% through a voucher scheme via my employer. So all in all I got a bit of a steal I think lol.

Dropped straight in without any issues.

2007 - Stornoway Grey 90 XS SW - Gone
2002 - Black Discovery II - Gone
2014 - Montalcino Red 110 XS SW

23rd Jan 2023 11:33am

Rosco

Member Since: 03 Dec 2010
Location: Burntwood
Posts: 1833

Dean Watson wrote:
is that right, where is it then ? has anyone got a colour pic?
on 2.4 its down back of the engine connector is on top in line with oil filler

nothing there on mine uk spec 2015 ht?

Dean, does this help?

Lorryman100 wrote:
The CHT sensor is mounted at the coolant manifold junction at the top rear of the cylinder head. The sensor is made up of a probe with a length of cable to the harness plug which is mounted on top of the cylinder head beside the red engine lift bracket under the plastic engine cover.

No 13 in the below diagram.

Click image to enlarge

Click image to enlarge

Click image to enlarge

If you have a DMM you can back probe the harness plug, and with the engine warm at operating temp take either a voltage or Kohms reading. The input to the sensor is a 5V reference voltage supplied from the voltage divider circuit within the ECM. The earth from the sensor is also connected to the ECM which measures the returned current and calculates a resistance figure for the sensor which relates to the cylinder head temperature. So at normal operating temp of 88-90 degrees Celsius you will get a resistance value of 2.9 Kohms or 0.64 volts. The higher the readings the colder the temp and the lower the reading the hotter it is. So -40 �Celsius will give you 925 Kohms and 4.45 volts, where as 150 �Celsius gives you 0.563 Kohms and 0.14 give or take a %.

Brian.

Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated

Taken from here https://www.defender2.net/forum/post144576.html 2007 - Stornoway Grey 90 XS SW - Gone
2002 - Black Discovery II - Gone
2014 - Montalcino Red 110 XS SW

23rd Jan 2023 11:48am

Dean Watson

Member Since: 17 Jul 2011
Location: Derby
Posts: 254

hi

thats on a 2.4 , on a 2.2 its not there , and i cannot figure out where the earlier black and white drawing is in the engine bay

i have the sensor and the socket but cannot find where it is on the 2.2?

23rd Jan 2023 12:01pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17338

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

Most of the Ford forums etc seem to suggest that the CHT is in roughly the same place on both the 2.4 and 2.2 engines, which in the light of your comments is strange.

Perhaps you don't have one, and that is why you have an issue!

23rd Jan 2023 12:29pm

Dean Watson

Member Since: 17 Jul 2011
Location: Derby
Posts: 254

bizarre

will nip out and take a pic , no connector there at all felt doen back and cannot feel another cable gong anywhere

its been fine since new with cold start until just before Christmas so i would assume its got one as i have no dtc codes

last fews months really difficult , its not the type of this to drop off is it!

will post a pic of mine

23rd Jan 2023 12:39pm

Rosco

Member Since: 03 Dec 2010
Location: Burntwood
Posts: 1833

Having scoured the diagrams on lrworkshop.com, I'd say there isnt one.

Clearly listed on the 2.4, item 11
https://www.lrworkshop.com/diagrams/land-r...head_44989

Nothing for the 2.2
https://www.lrworkshop.com/diagrams/land-r...ad_2.2tdci

Even went through the electrical components list they have and it was the same result. Odd there isnt one. 2007 - Stornoway Grey 90 XS SW - Gone
2002 - Black Discovery II - Gone
2014 - Montalcino Red 110 XS SW

23rd Jan 2023 1:20pm

Dean Watson

Member Since: 17 Jul 2011
Location: Derby
Posts: 254

hi that where I am at the moment

2.2 defender doesn't have one
2.4 does
so as far as I can see glow plugs must use coolant temp sensor in hose as trigger for glow plug

any more ideas what is holding the glow plugs to only 2/3 secs use?

Struggling now!

23rd Jan 2023 1:49pm

LandRoverAnorak

Member Since: 17 Jul 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 11324

I'm pretty sure that 2-3 seconds is quite normal for a 2.2. That's certainly what mine seems to do and it starts without issue. Darren

110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak

"You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia

23rd Jan 2023 1:52pm

Dean Watson

Member Since: 17 Jul 2011
Location: Derby
Posts: 254

ok thanks so that's the timing sorted if its normal

I have no fault codes regarding the glow plugs, as they are hard to get to I haven't tested or removed them
no blow fuses

its a 35k mid car but used for relatively short trips ,(wife's a nurse) could they be sooted up?, I have put a double dose of injector cleaner through it, to no noticeable difference

I have bought a set go glow plugs as next step if no there ideas, they haven't really had that much use however?
its been fine up to this year, never had an issue till this winter
new battery as well and 100% charged

any more collective knowledge

23rd Jan 2023 1:59pm

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