 | Home > Off Topic > For the "Green Brigade"... |
 
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| spudfan Member Since: 10 Sep 2007 Location: Co Donegal Posts: 4646  
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For the "Green Brigade" who do not give a thought to how all those solar panels and parts for their "EV's" are made. A lot of it is manufactured in China and this is what is driving it. A new rail line to Mongolia to transport 50 million tones of coal per year from a mine. There is another line planned to get more coal out for the power stations. Fair enough transporting the coal by rail is "greener" than by road but that is a lot of coal to be burnt in power stations. Over here the Green Party do not want coal being burnt in open fires and are expounding buying electric cars and installing solar panels etc. Do they not know what is powering the factories that produce the so called "green" stuff?
https://www.railwaygazette.com/freight/mon...i%20160922 1982 88" 2.25 diesel 1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali 2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu 2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai |
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16th Sep 2022 1:46pm |
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| Lodelaner Member Since: 04 Feb 2010 Location: Lambourn Posts: 631  
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Having a target without a roadmap means that organisations take the line of least resistance and lowest cost. The results are a combination of the law of unexpected consequences and an uncomfortable truth at work. JB
@Lodelaner Instagram Youtube greenlaning and other LR related content |
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16th Sep 2022 2:48pm |
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| Cragster69 Member Since: 15 Jun 2021 Location: Scotland Posts: 193  
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This is very American centric and in Freedom Units, but it makes good points.
Batteries, they do not make electricity – they store electricity produced elsewhere, primarily by coal, uranium, natural gas-powered plants, or diesel-fueled generators. So, to say an EV is a zero-emission vehicle is not at all valid. Also, since forty percent of the electricity generated in the U.S. is from coal-fired plants, it follows that forty percent of the EVs on the road are coal-powered, do you see?" But that is not half of it. For those of you excited about electric cars and a green revolution, I want you to take a closer look at batteries and also windmills and solar panels. A typical EV battery weighs one thousand pounds, about the size of a travel trunk. It contains twenty-five pounds of lithium, sixty pounds of nickel, 44 pounds of manganese, 30 pounds cobalt, 200 pounds of copper, and 400 pounds of aluminum, steel, and plastic. Inside are over 6,000 individual lithium-ion cells. To manufacture each EV auto battery, you must process 25,000 pounds of brine for the lithium, 30,000 pounds of ore for the cobalt, 5,000 pounds of ore for the nickel, and 25,000 pounds of ore for copper. All told, you dig up 500,000 pounds of the earth's crust for one battery." The main problem with solar arrays is the chemicals needed to process silicate into the silicon used in the panels. To make pure enough silicon requires processing it with hydrochloric acid, sulfuric acid, nitric acid, hydrogen fluoride, trichloroethane, and acetone. In addition, they also need gallium, arsenide, copper-indium-gallium- diselenide, and cadmium-telluride, which also are highly toxic. Silicon dust is a hazard to the workers, and the panels cannot be recycled. Windmills are the ultimate in embedded costs and environmental destruction. Each weighs 1688 tons (the equivalent of 23 houses) and contains 1300 tons of concrete, 295 tons of steel, 48 tons of iron, 24 tons of fiberglass, and the hard to extract rare earths neodymium, praseodymium, and dysprosium. Each blade weighs 81,000 pounds and will last 15 to 20 years, at which time it must be replaced. We cannot recycle used blades. There may be a place for these technologies, but you must look beyond the myth of zero emissions. "Going Green" may sound like the Utopian ideal but when you look at the hidden and embedded costs realistically with an open mind, you can see that Going Green is more destructive to the Earth's environment than meets the eye, for sure. Craig. “Don't believe everything you read on the internet.” ― Abraham Lincoln www.scotgrc.co.uk |
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16th Sep 2022 2:51pm |
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| Lodelaner Member Since: 04 Feb 2010 Location: Lambourn Posts: 631
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Actually I would vehemently disagree that that article is any use at all - it is very anti wind and whiffs of coal-lobby.
When construction and life is taken into account sea based monster turbines average 6grams of CO2 emission per kilowatthour of electricity generated. Land based wind turbines average 11 grams. That compares with 44 g/kWh for solar with battery storage, 450 g/kWh for natural gas, and a hideous 1kg/kWh for coal. And of course nuclear - about 9g per KWh, most of which is in construction. JB @Lodelaner Instagram Youtube greenlaning and other LR related content |
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16th Sep 2022 3:13pm |
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| Lodelaner Member Since: 04 Feb 2010 Location: Lambourn Posts: 631
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Regarding EVs, a large SUV EV takes 30 tonnes of CO2 to produce. A small petrol hatchback about 8 tonnes.
A Volvo XC40 is somewhere in the middle. The CO2 payback even using green electricity is over 30, 000 miles, 80, l000 using the European average for fossil and renewable sources power. JB @Lodelaner Instagram Youtube greenlaning and other LR related content |
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16th Sep 2022 3:16pm |
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| markb110 Member Since: 22 May 2010 Location: Guildford Posts: 2628  
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A few months back Australians were told to put on a extra jumper during their winter due to fuel shortages all the while exporting coal to China at record levels.
Chile uses more than 60% of its natural water in the mining industry for batteries California recently announced it was banning gas powered cars in the future, then two days after it asked people not to charge their electric vehicles as the power grid could not cope with demand as it was. EV drivers using service stations in the Uk run the risk of being fined if they exceed in many cases a two hour time limit, especially if they have to wait in line just to plug their own car in. Not to mention so many houses can’t accommodate a single car at their own property let alone another for their partner and then at least two more for the kids who cant afford to move out……. All sounds like a bit of a  show really…..
Even Tesla are only around because they are heavily subsidised by the US government and because they are so fugly and poorly made they are very unlikely to be bought out by a mainstream manufacturer in the future as their market share declines… |
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16th Sep 2022 4:15pm |
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