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Classic110

Member Since: 14 Mar 2021
Location: East Yorkshire & Hertfordshire
Posts: 25

Drivetrain Vibration after 20 miles driving

Still trying to find the cause of a drivetrain vibration under load that gets much worse after driving for about 20 miles or so. It is like driving on a gravel/small pebble track. Have checked on & off the 110 and phased the front prop-shaft, checked engine/gearbox mounts, changed both sets of front wheel bearings, both calipers/discs/pads and both front drives-shafts. It is felt through the steering wheel and handbrake lever but more so the gear lever. At times it is harsh but not a body wobble feeling. Tried on smooth roads, out of gear and without engine running. Doing this the vibration is almost not noticeable. Have read many many posts on the forum but I just can not locate the issue. Gearbox works OK as does the TB, some play in the front and rear diffs but not a huge amount and no nasty noises on rotating them, also removed both props and driven for the same distance just vibration about the same.

Any help greatly appreciated as IT really is becoming a *****.

Thank you.

24th Apr 2022 2:18pm

donmacn

Member Since: 06 Nov 2017
Location: Nth Scotland
Posts: 1841

You’ve tried a lot there.

How about removing the handbrake shoes and seeing what happens? My logic is that if the drum is out of round, or the shoes binding slightly then it would maybe get worse as things warmed up. This might explain the way it gets worse after about 20 miles. Though I guess that would also apply to the other parts of the transmission too.

Obviously need a couple of wheel chocks handy ‘just in case’. Donald

1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong
(The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html )
2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8

in the past..
RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi
1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box
1993 Discovery 300Tdi

not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper...

24th Apr 2022 2:55pm

Dinnu

Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 3414

2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Santorini Black

Tyres maybe?
I get a vibration on my old and worn tyres.. though I can feel it more when coasting. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black

24th Apr 2022 3:08pm

Classic110

Member Since: 14 Mar 2021
Location: East Yorkshire & Hertfordshire
Posts: 25

Good shout about the handbrake shoes. Will have a look at that tomorrow.

I think if it were the tires this would have show up when I coasted the 110 with the engine off on a smooth road. They are relatively new and have about 10mm of tread and are all matched. But I will swap them over just in case.

Thank you both for your replies.

24th Apr 2022 4:02pm

spudfan

Member Since: 10 Sep 2007
Location: Co Donegal
Posts: 4660

Did you have any work done on the prop shafts like getting the couplings replaced? 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali
2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu
2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai

25th Apr 2022 9:55pm

Classic110

Member Since: 14 Mar 2021
Location: East Yorkshire & Hertfordshire
Posts: 25

Both props were changed in October 2019 for new ones and have covered around 16,000 miles which has been mainly road miles and no heavy off road use or towing. Had it looked at yesterday by a local specialist who only mentioned that there was slight play in the front TB output flange bearing, which some say is acceptable but I am going to change it and see if there is any improvement.

26th Apr 2022 6:38am

spudfan

Member Since: 10 Sep 2007
Location: Co Donegal
Posts: 4660

There are alignment marks on the front prop shaft. If these are not aligned during replacement you will get vibration while driving. Use tippex or something similar to mark the prop shaft before work then just reassemble aligning the marks. 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali
2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu
2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai

26th Apr 2022 12:32pm

Retroanaconda

Member Since: 04 Jan 2012
Location: Scotland
Posts: 2645

Slight radial play in the front output flange is normal.

26th Apr 2022 12:38pm

Classic110

Member Since: 14 Mar 2021
Location: East Yorkshire & Hertfordshire
Posts: 25

Front and rear prop shafts removed this morning to check a few things: The front is correctly phased and the arrow marks both line up as do the rear ones. I did take two videos of the front diff flange and front TB flange radial movements not realising that it is not possible to upload them without first doing it to YouTube. The diff flange has only minimal radial movement but the TB flange has about 40 degrees of movement and some, but not bad mechanical noise. This was with the handbrake on. Handbrake shoes were catching slightly on the drum so these have been backed off. When spinning the handbrake drum there is a rotational bearing noise and some up/down/left/right play. The rear diff does have some radial play but about the same, maybe a little more than the front. I suspect it is the internals of the TB causing the vibration!!!

26th Apr 2022 12:52pm

steve E

Member Since: 06 Mar 2011
Location: Tenby
Posts: 2073

I had this with the handbrakes shoes and only happened once it was all warmed up about 20 miles or so also.

26th Apr 2022 1:38pm

Dinnu

Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 3414

Classic110 wrote:
the TB flange has about 40 degrees of movement and some, but not bad mechanical noise. This was with the handbrake on.

Assuming the main gearbox was in gear, then this rotation is normal. You are taking up all the play in the gears.

Classic110 wrote:
Handbrake shoes were catching slightly on the drum so these have been backed off. When spinning the handbrake drum there is a rotational bearing noise and some up/down/left/right play. The rear diff does have some radial play but about the same, maybe a little more than the front. I suspect it is the internals of the TB causing the vibration!!!

If the rear prop shaft is removed, the handbrake drum is only held by a small countesunk screw, so movement of the drum is to be expected. You can place a stack of washers, or one or two oversized nuts on the prop shaft flange bolts and put back and tighten the prop shaft nuts and then check the handbrake drum (do this also if you want to put it in front wheel drive mode only). 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black

26th Apr 2022 2:33pm

Classic110

Member Since: 14 Mar 2021
Location: East Yorkshire & Hertfordshire
Posts: 25

Dinnu.

I did use two oversize nuts to tighten up the brake drum before I checked any rear output bearing play. But what I did not do was to check the TB front output flange bearing/rotational play whilst the gear box was in gear.

27th Apr 2022 7:30am

Dinnu

Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 3414

The rear output shaft is also supported by a simple ball bearing (similar to the front output shaft).

Later play on the front output flange is normal, but I generally do not feel play on the rear output, albeit same design, perhaps due to the longer internal shaft (the center diff is all he way to the front).

I guess worth investigating that. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black

27th Apr 2022 9:04am

Classic110

Member Since: 14 Mar 2021
Location: East Yorkshire & Hertfordshire
Posts: 25

So an update on this ****** vibration. Got under the Defender (after a 30mile run) earlier this week to have another look and play. What I found was a little surprising: October 2019 a new galvanised chassis was fitted with no problem, except one, as a relative reminded me when I was under the 110. Only the OS engine mount was changed as one of the supplied mounts would not fit on either side of the vehicle. So the original was left on the NS. Well to my surprise the OS one when the car was hot/warm had dropped slightly about 5mm towards the metal chassis mounting bracket and the "wing" of the the rubber mount was very close to the bracket. So with assistance and very carefully we started the engine and I laid under the 110 whilst drive/load was taken up, yes you guessed it the mount fully made contact with the bracket. I also discovered that the chassis metal bracket for the mount was out of alignment by 3-4mm!!! So OS mount changed, went for a drive and great no vibration, problem solved.

Put the front prop back on and yes a new vibration is there but no where near as bad. So at least I have narrowed it down to to faulty prop, TB front output bearing or maybe a diff issue. Will carry on my quest.

21st May 2022 4:23pm

L110CDL

Member Since: 31 Oct 2015
Location: Devon
Posts: 10751

Great you found the problem but it's a bit like that, one step forward, two steps back but one day you will go forward more than back

1996 Golf Blue 300Tdi 110 Pick up.

Keeper.

Clayton.

23rd May 2022 8:44pm

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