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Gasket



Member Since: 30 May 2020
Location: Manchester
Posts: 629

dual battery confusion - separate leisure battery?
Hi everyone.

I promise, I have spent the last couple of hours using the search function - and have been searching YouTube too. I've read lots of information and have thoroughly confused myself.

I would really like:

    a second (leisure) battery in my 2010 90. It would be used when camping to power some auxiliary lights, a fridge or cooler and to charge phones and laptops overnight. This is a periodic thing, so I would be happy with some sort of self contained/removable battery box with its own split charger and aux sockets that I removed at the end of each trip.

    I would also like a method of connecting a CTEK trickle charger to the main battery, without removing the seats - I have separately looked at a simple eyelet/comfort charger for this.

    Finally, I would like to be able connect a tyre inflator compressor to the main battery for regular use.


Now, the first confusion is the old school/cheap split charge systems (which I think are now called VSRs) which cost well under £100 versus the modern systems which seem to be recommended now (B2B/DC-DC) that seem to be closer to £500. I understand that the modern DC-DCs create a better quality charging pattern for the leisure battery.

I'm also confused about the little battery monitors - the pads with LEDS that stick to the dash. Are these necessary or a toy?

I'd really like a nice simple kit of parts that doesn't leave visible wiring in my vehicle.

My current feeling is that a permanently mounted connector to the battery (either an Anderson connector or remote jump-start posts) would allow me to connect both the tyre inflating compressor and could also be used (granted, over the top) to connect the CTEK trickle charger. I'm also tempted to suggest that there might be a way to use the Anderson connector to hook up a standalone leisure battery in a box to the vehicle as-and-when needed.

The standalone box would also mean there would be less modifications to the base vehicle (so could be removed quickly prior to sale) and would also mean that I wouldn't need to add a load of aux sockets into the interior of the vehicle as I could leave these on the box itself.

I'd really welcome any suggestions or advice.
Post #949197 12th Apr 2022 6:53pm
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LandRoverAnorak



Member Since: 17 Jul 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 11324

United Kingdom 
The idea of a separate split charge and battery in a removable box is interesting but does seem to be a bit wasteful of space, particularly in a 90, when it could all be fitted under the passenger seat. You'd also want to be sure that it's properly restrained and ventilated, which may preclude it being buried under your camping gear.

An Anderson socket would work well for that but would be very difficult to also use for a CTEK connection due to the significant differences in the sizes of cable for each. It would be better to install a dedicated socket for the CTEK or use the towing electrics, which is by far the easiest solution.

For the split charge system itself, personally I think the big VSR's are perfectly adequate for typical Land Rover use. Yes, you can get slightly more efficient charging from a more sophisticated system but I don't think that benefit outweighs the pronounced difference in cost. VSR's have served countless caravans and campers for years without issue. I've had one in my 110 for nearly four years and it just works. Darren

110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak

"You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia
Post #949209 12th Apr 2022 8:32pm
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Jabberwocky



Member Since: 27 Oct 2021
Location: Luxembourg
Posts: 223

Luxembourg 
Get a bluetti or jackery type solar generator that can just be sat somewhere charging off a cigarette socket as you drive. You could also mount a dedicated solar panel for it on the roof and run a cable down you where you keep it.
Post #949216 12th Apr 2022 10:55pm
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miker



Member Since: 13 Sep 2015
Location: Surrey
Posts: 1763

United Kingdom 1999 Defender 110 Td5 CSW Rioja Red
You know Jabberwocky. That's a damn good idea! Plenty of options on the market too these days.
Post #949221 12th Apr 2022 11:28pm
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MatLandy



Member Since: 11 Sep 2020
Location: Paris
Posts: 184

France 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Zermatt Silver
I am using a Portable Power Pack from National Luna for occasional trips, this includes a built-in split-charge isolator.
https://www.nationalluna.com/product/porta...-hardware/
It seems to fit your initial requirements, although unfortunately has been recently discontinued as National Luna is now offering more modern versions that supports lithium battery types etc.

/Mat
Post #949228 13th Apr 2022 7:14am
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bodstruck



Member Since: 09 May 2020
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 922

United Kingdom 
Given that the space is available, mounting a second battery under the seat is a straightforward job, plenty around that will fit.

As for how to connect it, I have used a number of methods and all have worked perfectly well for my needs (12v accessories, fridge, winch).
My current setup uses a second alternator connected to the second battery coupled with a relay that can be switched to allow them to be joined if a jump start is required.
Previously has a twin battery setup with a T max split charger. Also good.
My simplest setup was using a Victron battery joiner (essentially a VSR) which can also take a switch to force a link between batteries if a jump start was needed.

I think a second alternator is a it overkill but either of the other two would be just fine for your purposes. Cheap enough if you needed to leave in the car when sold but also easy enough to take out if needed.
Post #949242 13th Apr 2022 8:35am
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mikeh501



Member Since: 07 Jan 2013
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1142

United Kingdom 
Hi Gasket, Ive got a very similar setup as you propse and happy to show you how it works and the kit of parts needed. Im staffs moorland way.

In short, this is what I would do...

2 x Batteries under the pass seat. Id abandon the idea of having one removable. These are heavy guage cables and you dont want to keep disturbing everything.

1 x Batt VSR again under the seat. It will fit promise! This one is excellent but as you know there are others.
https://www.bluesea.com/products/7622/ML-A...2V_DC_500A

This will connect the batteries when charging from alternator or from CTEK but when engine is off/not charging it will disconnect and your 'house' loads i.e anything connected to the fuse box below will not be able to discharge your starting battery. The Bluesea VSR has a button to force this connect/disconnect also.

1 x Fuse Box. again these are excellent. Connect this via 100amp cable to the leisure/house battery.
https://www.mudstuff.co.uk/products/blue-sea-fuse-box

1 x CTEK Panel indicator. Connect this to the starter battery. You can connect the crocodile clips of a CTEK to a anderson connector which is what ive been doing until I got this.
https://www.google.com/shopping/product/1?...bkQ9pwGCAk

Your going to need a host of other stuff. e.g.
Some inline fuses for the high amp feeds e.g. the fuse box above. google mega fuses.
Various cable sizes, crimpers, heat shrink, connectors.
Grommets where you pass through metal panels
Anderson connector. Ive got a bulkhead mount for this and cover. This allows it to come out of the battery seat box and bolt to the front of it for easy connection to jump leads and a air compressor. Rated at 150a iirc and the benefit is that the high amp wires are short and the whole thing is protected by being inside the vehicle.

With all this stuff just think about keeping it fairly simple, easily understood and making any wires fused adequately and/or isolatable.

happy to chuck some pics up of mine if interested.
Post #949246 13th Apr 2022 9:18am
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DSC-off



Member Since: 16 Oct 2014
Location: North East
Posts: 1428

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Aintree Green
A removable battery box with charging is my project for the week!
I've had a leisure battery in a box for years, just to power a fridge, normally fine for 4/5 days without charging.
A planned 2 week trip to Lewis, Harris, Skye requires a way to top it up.

I've got a caravan/trailer voltage sensing relay, £10 to £12, Amazon. Was amazed how small it is.


Click image to enlarge


Blue Sea fuse box to mount on the main battery mega fuse terminal.


Click image to enlarge


To connect the 2, I'm using a Fast Plug because there was one in the garage. OK for 60 Amps, available at Halfords.


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When finished, the box will be securely strapped down in whichever vehicle it is being used.
Post #949257 13th Apr 2022 10:38am
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Gasket



Member Since: 30 May 2020
Location: Manchester
Posts: 629

that is some great feedback folks - thank you very much.

Great to hear that there doesn't seem to be a need to go for a fancy DC-DC/B2B system. With the far lower cost of the VSRs, I can afford to go for something from the Redeye or BlueSea catalogue.

MikeH/DSC any photos you could share of your installs would be really great to see.
Post #949295 13th Apr 2022 6:44pm
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DuncanS



Member Since: 06 Dec 2013
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 299

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Santorini Black
This might be food for thought. I have a twin battery tray with a custom box (which I was considering selling commercially) holding the main distribution for my defender. It enables me to have the BlueSea ML-ACR accessible without taking the seat off, and holding the main master fuses for all the auxiliary systems. The interconnecting cables are done in 95mm2 to ensure there is no disparity in load sharing when the batteries are connected for winching etc.

Unfortunately with this being a V1 design, the top line isn't quite at the right angle to match the seatbox but would easily be rectified by someone taking measurements other than me!

Within the box itself I also have three additional megafuse holders for the original defender tdci fused main supply and winch and jump start lines, as these won't fit in the midi fuse panel due to size. Also in the box I have planned a double pole cut off switch for ECU cut out & internal alarms.

The midi fuse panel currently only has distribution to my rear main aux fusebox on a 35mm cable but I'll have some additional front anderson connectors and things coming off it soon.

The ML-ACR has a handy carling switch dash indicator set up which works brilliantly, however sometimes I do find myself wanting for a battery monitor on the leisure battery.

Any further queries, just let me know.



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EDIT 2 ADD: Apologies I don't seem to have any completed photos handy, but I can assure you it's a pig to get the 95mm tails into that box, but they do fit with a good flexible cable. I used 5x15mm industrial bus bar to make the fixed links which were also a pain but work really well. North Cumbria Search and Rescue - Team Leader
Post #949310 13th Apr 2022 8:48pm
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macfrank



Member Since: 05 Nov 2015
Location: somewhere in the north
Posts: 1081

Germany 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Keswick Green
95mm2 - wow Thumbs Up
You manged to get TWO batteries in there despite the side box? What size and capacity are they?
Post #949359 14th Apr 2022 2:01pm
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DuncanS



Member Since: 06 Dec 2013
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 299

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Santorini Black
This might help. Main starter battery is 76ah and leisure is 80ah. Had the opportunity to take a photo today as I was croc clipping a transfer pump on.



Click image to enlarge
 North Cumbria Search and Rescue - Team Leader
Post #949382 14th Apr 2022 5:01pm
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macfrank



Member Since: 05 Nov 2015
Location: somewhere in the north
Posts: 1081

Germany 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Keswick Green
Thumbs Up
Post #949434 15th Apr 2022 8:40am
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UtilityTruck



Member Since: 09 Jan 2014
Location: Oxford
Posts: 463

United Kingdom 
If you’re looking for minimal fuss and a system that could be removed when you don’t need it, or even used away from the vehicle, Ecoflow are worth a look https://www.ecoflow.com/

I’ve used one at work in a camper, they come in various capacities and give you the ability to charge USB devices or run mains equipment. Some even have the possibility to add solar charging. It’ll charge on Mains or from the accessory socket while you drive.



Click image to enlarge
 2014 Keswick Utility 2.2
Post #949699 17th Apr 2022 10:20pm
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LandymanStefan



Member Since: 30 Aug 2017
Location: Surrey
Posts: 881

England 2001 Defender 90 Td5 SW Epsom Green
Funnily enough i was having the same problem. I wanted a high quality dual battery for my 90 that i could remove. I found all these chinese plastic all in one boxes are over priced, slow charging and fairly naff. I also found with most review videos showed they couldnt even meet their output ratings or charge time. Also many lacked the features i wanted, which were, possibilities of high current outputs to run a compressor for example, no bluetooth, also none of them are lithium phosphate so their battery chemisty only lasts around 500 charge cycles. Many lithium phosphate batteries are rated for 4000 charge cycles and some even 8000 cycles.

This lead me to build my own system.
Im using a battery with 100ah/1280wh capacity, a 4000 cycle charge rating, bluetooth capable, with a max current draw of 100amp and a max charge current of 50 amps with a 5 year warranty.
Im using victron dc-dc and solar chargers which also have bluetooth and a 5 year warranty.

I can charge from 0-80% from the car alone in a touch over 4 hours. I can in theory have another 200-300w (10-15amps) of solar charging at the same timeas that to reduce times further and i also have a 20a mains charger that can charge me from 0-80% in 4 hours too.

I made it all by hand but have thought the idea will appeal to others so have been making the cad drawings to get a quote for having the panels laser cut and eventually would like to make a full aluminium version to go along side this version.


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Last edited by LandymanStefan on 19th Apr 2022 3:37pm. Edited 3 times in total
Post #949853 19th Apr 2022 3:00pm
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