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Joel



Member Since: 18 Oct 2020
Location: Rotherham
Posts: 76

United Kingdom 2002 Defender 110 Td5 DCPU Santorini Black
Gearbox / Transfer box removal
If I were to remove the gearbox / transfer box via 2 or 4 post ramp, is it still necessary to lift up the transmission tunnel lid between the seats?

I only ask as I have mounted by aux fuse boxes in a mud locker there, and have drilled the lid to do it. Just wondering if I need to strip it out before, or if its possible to do it from underneath, just removing the tunnel carpet etc.

Thanks in advance
Post #930670 22nd Nov 2021 12:39pm
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geobloke



Member Since: 06 Nov 2012
Location: Nottinghamshire
Posts: 4410

United Kingdom 
Nope. Just the footwell transmission tunnel. The seatbox lid can remain where it is.
Post #930671 22nd Nov 2021 1:01pm
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miker



Member Since: 13 Sep 2015
Location: Surrey
Posts: 1763

United Kingdom 1999 Defender 110 Td5 CSW Rioja Red
I'd say it will be a bit of a fiddle to get to some of the bolts, I think the wiring harness is anchored at the back there somewhere?

I've always gotten arms in through the seatbox, but I've also only ever done the job on the ground!
Post #930676 22nd Nov 2021 2:22pm
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geobloke



Member Since: 06 Nov 2012
Location: Nottinghamshire
Posts: 4410

United Kingdom 
I am however extremely envious of the lift you have access to, will surely make the process much much easier and more comfortable than working on your back.


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I definitely didn't have any issues with routed cables and not removing the beatbox genre lid. The cables on a TD5 run along the near-side of the R380 and are tied in place (usually) on a bracket.


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Great fun rebuilding the R380 (mine ate itself at 70mph), just a few of the process


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Post #930679 22nd Nov 2021 2:44pm
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donmacn



Member Since: 06 Nov 2017
Location: Nth Scotland
Posts: 1841

 
Not answering the OP, sorry, but top marks Geobloke! I managed to get mine out of the car by myself - though I didn't do as you have and lift the car onto axle stands first.

But as for rebuilding it myself, I don't think I'd even consider it. Mine went off to Ashcrofts. Maybe if I got a scrap box to play with first, but even then.... award yourself a gold star! Donald

1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong
(The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html )
2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8

in the past..
RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi
1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box
1993 Discovery 300Tdi

not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper...
Post #930709 22nd Nov 2021 5:36pm
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geobloke



Member Since: 06 Nov 2012
Location: Nottinghamshire
Posts: 4410

United Kingdom 
Thumbs Up

Who doesn't love getting a gold star Rolling Eyes

The axle stands and low profile gearbox mount were essential for getting the gearboxes out from under the chassis rail. IIRC there was less then 5mm clearance. The things we have to do when solo DIYing our Land Rovers Rolling with laughter

Well it definitely wasn't as difficult as I thought it would be and made a fantastic covid lockdown project since I couldn't go anywhere Thumbs Up To say I learnt a lot during this project is an understatement and touch wood the gearbox is A1, never had a Defender gearbox with such deliciously crisp gear changes. Thumbs Up

Lastly... I miss having a garage... Big Cry
Post #930711 22nd Nov 2021 5:52pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17337

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
Geobloke, may I ask what failed on yours and what the symptoms were? I removed the R380 and LT230 from my Disco2 after is started making extreme coffee-grinder sounds on the M27, but I am still unsure whether it was the R380 or the LT230 (I replaced both with a second-hand assembly).

I have stripped and am rebuilding the LT230 as a spare, and it is apparent that the intermediate gear bearings had started to fail and one had just started to spin, which may account for the noise, but nothing unpleasant came out with the R380 oil and I haven't stripped the box, yet.

What surprised me on the LT230 is that there is absolutely no trace whatsoever of any of the four differential gear thrust washers in the box. They clearly wore out long enough ago to have been flushed away completely with oil changes! The box had done about 220k miles when removed.
Post #930714 22nd Nov 2021 5:58pm
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donmacn



Member Since: 06 Nov 2017
Location: Nth Scotland
Posts: 1841

 
Ha ha! I think I got confused - I used to remember you saying you wanted a garage, and thought: "Ooh! He's working in a nice garage!" I guess I've missed something along the way. No garage - had a garage - no garage again.

You're absolutely right about the clearance under the chassis rail. I had an 'adaptor' plate on my good jack - bolted to the gearbox so the #1 jack was in use. I had to use #2 jack, and lots of blocks of wood to get one side of the car high enough. Didn't enjoy that at all.

I decided that 'next time' I drop the gearbox (though hopefully not) I'll get an engine crane, and lower it from above. Donald

1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong
(The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html )
2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8

in the past..
RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi
1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box
1993 Discovery 300Tdi

not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper...
Post #930715 22nd Nov 2021 6:01pm
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geobloke



Member Since: 06 Nov 2012
Location: Nottinghamshire
Posts: 4410

United Kingdom 
blackwolf wrote:
Geobloke, may I ask what failed on yours and what the symptoms were? I removed the R380 and LT230 from my Disco2 after is started making extreme coffee-grinder sounds on the M27, but I am still unsure whether it was the R380 or the LT230 (I replaced both with a second-hand assembly).

I have stripped and am rebuilding the LT230 as a spare, and it is apparent that the intermediate gear bearings had started to fail and one had just started to spin, which may account for the noise, but nothing unpleasant came out with the R380 oil and I haven't stripped the box, yet.

What surprised me on the LT230 is that there is absolutely no trace whatsoever of any of the four differential gear thrust washers in the box. They clearly wore out long enough ago to have been flushed away completely with oil changes! The box had done about 220k miles when removed.


What failed were the HD bearings I had fitted by Ashcroft. The internal bearing race wore significantly, releasing metal filings in to the oil, that ground down the oil pump components and eventually there was enough play in the bearings to allow 5th gear to jump or jam its teeth... Bang... The box was serviced regularly, probably more regularly than necessary. To be honest I do not know what happened first, oil pump wear or bearing wear. At the time I blamed the HD bearings, from new they were a little noisier than standard bearings. I opted for the standard bearings in the new box and standard fifth gear as well. What I noticed was that the internal surface of the casing was very black as if the oil was getting very hot, so decided to source and fit the gearbox cooler adapter to protect the investment. At the time the general opinion on forums was that it is necessary on UK vehicles because they do not get hot enough...

...BOLLUCKS...

...I can tell you whole-heartedly that an R380 in the UK definitely gets hot enough to open the valve in the gearbox cooler, especially on long motorway trips, towing or when kitted out with camping gear. Perhaps the ECU tune doesn't help neither Rolling Eyes

I have promised myself that if my LT230 every needs doing I will DIY it as well and include an Ashcroft ATB in there as it is stronger than the standard centre diff with those soft like cheese shims you mentioned Smile Our man at Britannica Restorations has done a number of excellent LT230 videos. Worth a look.

Then the same with the Diffs too, as and when I will rebuild them too. Thumbs Up
Post #930721 22nd Nov 2021 6:28pm
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geobloke



Member Since: 06 Nov 2012
Location: Nottinghamshire
Posts: 4410

United Kingdom 
donmacn wrote:
Ha ha! I think I got confused - I used to remember you saying you wanted a garage, and thought: "Ooh! He's working in a nice garage!" I guess I've missed something along the way. No garage - had a garage - no garage again.

You're absolutely right about the clearance under the chassis rail. I had an 'adaptor' plate on my good jack - bolted to the gearbox so the #1 jack was in use. I had to use #2 jack, and lots of blocks of wood to get one side of the car high enough. Didn't enjoy that at all.

I decided that 'next time' I drop the gearbox (though hopefully not) I'll get an engine crane, and lower it from above.


You are quite right... I didn't, then I did and now I don't again... Life's confusing Rolling Eyes Now I have dirty muddy gravel to do my DIY thing on, at least it is not on the main road Thumbs Up

I found the transmission jack to be worth its weight in gold. Highly recommended for anyone thinking of DIY'ing a gearbox change. It is just safe and controllable without being at all sketchy. Whilst it is entirely personal choice, I still think a transmission jack is better than an engine crane through the cab, especially when doing it Solo.
Post #930722 22nd Nov 2021 6:33pm
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