 | Home > Wheels & Tyres > 255/85 advice |
 
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| donmacn Member Since: 06 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1846  
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…..and still no sensibly-priced 255/85 ATs….? I’ve not come across any, but just in case I’ve missed something? Donald
1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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6th Jun 2023 7:31pm |
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| MuddyChris300tdi Member Since: 02 Mar 2014 Location: Derby Posts: 224  
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Thread bump. I'm going to need to replace my 255 km's soon and can't make my mind up to spend an extra £500 and get Km 3's or go Toyo's. Has anyone anyone gone from BfG's to Toyo's?? How are you finding they compare.
 Click image to enlarge Km2's in use this weekend 😄 Thanks Chris. |
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5th Feb 2024 10:27am |
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| Chicken Drumstick Member Since: 17 Aug 2020 Location: Near MK Posts: 754
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What do you use them for?
IMO the KM3 is one of the best 'new' tyre mud terrains you can buy currently (for extreme stuff there are more capable remould MT patterns). They also seem to work very well on the road. My experience with the Toyos is the 235 size, but the tread is essentially the same. They are much more of an All Terrain in their off road capability. Probably no better than the KM3 on the road weirdly but quite good here. As a general use or green laning tyre I'd say they are fine. But more likely to get stuck than with the KM3 if it gets muddy. Seeing first hand how vehicles on the Toyo's struggle and slide all over the show in the mud vs other vehicles driving the same terrain with no problem really shows how far the divide is. |
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5th Feb 2024 12:30pm |
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| Chris86 Member Since: 15 Jul 2014 Location: South Yorks Posts: 789 
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Hello,
We swapped from KM2s to Toyos in 255/85/16 and wouldn't go back- so much so we run them on both our L200 and 110 that we use for offroad driver training- I have mentioned elsewhere that the L200 will probably go onto a set of Davanti ATs for summer- but I have just ordered our third set of Toyos to go on my second set of wheels for when the ground gets wet again. Road noise, wet road handling and snow they are night-and-day better- also took significantly less weight to balance. Off road, I would say that straight ahead grip the BFGs in really thick mud *maybe* just edge the Toyos because of the more open tread pattern, however otherwise I think most folk would be hard pushed to tell one from another- the Toyo has a much squarer edge tread, and is definitely superior for climbing out of ruts to the BFG- the lateral grip I would say is better too. My one main observation for the the Toyos is that they are a more pressure sensitive tyre in terms of performance, particulalrly on our L200 which took a bit of faffing to get the pressures set for off road to get the bet from them. Our current set on the 110 is about 12k miles old, and aside from some minor chipping due to some of the sites we use barely look used. The set on the L200 have just clicked over 40k miles and have 7mm left, so are due to come off the car imminently, in the last 10k miles they have started to get noticeably noisier- the L200 has a tendency to chew the edges of the front tyres and despite rotating them fairly regularly and I think this is partly why they are noisy- the BFG ATs that I took off when we got the vehicle had the same wear profile and were very noisy indeed. In terms of the KM3, I have not been able to drive them on a defender or in 255/85/16 however I have driven them like for like, on identical vehicles/test surfaces and they weren't outstanding compared to the other tyres in the test, I remember when the original BFG MT and the Hankook Dynapro MT were streets ahead of everything else.......... I also recently drove a customer car (2019 Ranger) on a set and was pretty shocked at how loud they were on the road and how numb the steering felt. Chris Last edited by Chris86 on 5th Feb 2024 1:14pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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5th Feb 2024 1:06pm |
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| jimbo55 Member Since: 15 Jul 2020 Location: Midlands Posts: 399
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I went to toyos after the 255’s that I think you had off me, went that route due to price and size options (33” mud tyres for 18” rims don’t have a great choice)
The on road performance of them are pretty similar, the toyo is definitely quieter and maybe marginally better in the wet. Off road they are equal to each other in my opinion, I haven’t really noticed a change at all since swapping. I go off roading with a few guys running bfg’s in equivalent sizes and it seems that either everyone can get through or none of us can, never had a situation where Toyos get through but bfg’s don’t or vice versa. Even at a P&P’a when it’s really muddy and sloppy. The Toyo will most likely be bigger than the bfg, even if the printed size is the same, Toyos tent to come up larger, and to that they are a heavier tyre. Also worth considering a new toyo is always going to be better than a half worn toyo and you can buy two sets of Toyo’s for the price of a BFG. |
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5th Feb 2024 1:12pm |
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| MuddyChris300tdi Member Since: 02 Mar 2014 Location: Derby Posts: 224
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Thanks for your replies. I do about 16k miles a year in the van 99% road. Only used off-road for camping and some green laning. If they did this size in an AT I would probably go for that instead but I like the size so stuck with MT's. Today I have been quoted £1220 for 5 Bfg's and £830 for Toyo's. As there's doesn't seem to be much difference in performance and longevity between them I'm more leaning towards the toyos.
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5th Feb 2024 1:38pm |
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| Chicken Drumstick Member Since: 17 Aug 2020 Location: Near MK Posts: 754
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Surprised so many are raving about the Toyos off road prowess. I do accept that the terrain type can have a bearing, plus what you are using it for.
Here is an example of what I'm meaning. The blue 90 is on Toyos, note how it skates down hill, generally struggles, fails to make the climb despite all 4 wheels spinning and plenty of momentum (most other people drove up there as you can see from the ground marks) and eventually on the next section ends up stuck, unable to go forwards or backwards, needing recovery. Lots of wheelspin when being pulled out too due to low traction and grip. The white 90 then literally crawls through the same gully and even after stopping (trying to get through the 1 gate) can drive straight forward again. (The white 90 is not on KM3's, video is to show the Toyos lack of grip more than the how good the KM3s are). Now I'm not saying the Toyo is a bad tyre, it isn't. But off road it compares much more favourably to an All Terrain than other Mud Terrains (IMO). At other sites I've seen the Toyos struggle just as much while other people drive around fine. And more than one person with the Toyos. The KM3s I've driven on and seen at trials events have always gone much better in off road conditions. |
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5th Feb 2024 2:55pm |
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| Chris86 Member Since: 15 Jul 2014 Location: South Yorks Posts: 789
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Its very difficult to make a good comparison when not on the same vehicle, same tyre pressure, same loading and configuration and on a repeatable surface.
In qualitative testing I was involved with recently we had a set route which two drivers drove, with no knowledge of which tyre was fitted so as to not apply bias. We both drove it in order to keep the weight the same and the car performance as consistent as possible as well as to remove any favour of one driver. It's not 100% scientific because the surface will alter slightly through the day and some sections of the route will obviously suffer slightly with more vehicles but we tried to choose a route and a venue to be as consistent as possible. We can do more quantitative work on gravel/tarmac/calibrated test surfaces. Superficially- when that 90 was recovered there looked to be very minimal deflection in the side wall which suggests they were possibly running quite high tyre pressure- as I mentioned above, that's the *one* thing that is very noticeable on the Toyos- much more so on the L200.....the difference in traction between 34psi and 29 psi on the rears is huge Chris |
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5th Feb 2024 6:32pm |
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| Chris86 Member Since: 15 Jul 2014 Location: South Yorks Posts: 789
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Deleted double post
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5th Feb 2024 6:58pm |
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| Chicken Drumstick Member Since: 17 Aug 2020 Location: Near MK Posts: 754
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Pressures very similar. Both 90’s so driver makes little difference when you can clearly see different grip levels. Was the same result for the entire day and at other sites with other vehicles fitted those tyres. As said, not knocking them if they suit your purpose. But I honestly think you are being rather blinkered if you think they are great in the mud. I get you own them so might be more biased. I’ll dig out another video of the person driving the white 90 stuck when they had the Toyos fitted if you want. |
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5th Feb 2024 9:03pm |
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| Grouse Member Since: 16 Apr 2012 Location: on the hill Posts: 521 |
Not really an accurate comparison - if you watch the video the driver of the blue 90 gunned it at the wrong spot and filled the treads with mud = loss of traction.
Personally I’d take the Toyo’s over the BFG as I’ve had both and the BFG’s are far noisier and have less grip on tarmac - which is predominantly where most LR spend their time even if you do a lot of off roading. Off road in the mud I couldn’t tell the difference. I own a farm and drive off road most days so think i’m probably qualified to comment without bias or owners favouritism or remorse. |
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5th Feb 2024 9:59pm |
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| Chris86 Member Since: 15 Jul 2014 Location: South Yorks Posts: 789
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I'm not sure blinkered is fair.......I'm very open minded due to the work I do- and would describe the Toyos as an informed decision based on first hand experience as opposed to "I just like them"
My day job is I teach off road vehicle operating, and as a result I'm in the fortunate position that I get to drive, and sit in when many other people drive all sorts of vehicle and tyre combinations, my observations are based on that- and also assisting with testing of MT tyres for development of a new tyre- last year we group benchmark tested 7 MTs back to back in mud, sand, rocky conditions, plus snow and ice- BFG were one of those, along with a range of others ranging from a remould to other premium brand and mid range tyres. Drivers, suspension set up, weight (both overall and positioning) makes a massive difference, depending on the test being conducted we have to try and remove the human element by either making a plan to drive consistently- or by deliberately forcing the vehicle on driver aids (braking on ABS deliberately or driving against the TC threshold) as they will respond far more consistently than a driver. I have been in a position where I have been able to drive the KM2 mud (not KM3 admittedly) on my own vehicle back to back with the Toyos in the same size, incidentally the set of BFGs were nearly new (less than 1000 miles) - and have noted my own observations based on the driving we have done both on and off road. I do think the KM3 probably would edge the Toyo for grip in a straight line in really thick mud based on what I have done with them......but then the Bridgestone Dueller would annihilate both in the same test, and also it's ability to climb out of ruts too where it was absolutely awesome and monstered the testing we did of that parameter- however it looses out elsewhere. We have bought multiple sets, as a result of having been impressed with the performance, and continuing to be so. At the end of the day you pay your money and take a choice, based on what I have seen, presented with the two tyres in the same size I would take the Toyo. In other sizes ......I'd be pretty tempted by the new Kumho MT......... |
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5th Feb 2024 10:21pm |
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| MuddyChris300tdi Member Since: 02 Mar 2014 Location: Derby Posts: 224
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A lot of info there, thank you.
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6th Feb 2024 6:57am |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20455
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From what I’ve seen a lot of performance is pretty similar between brands, but it’s the longevity that is more of an issue.
BFG have a really long life, the others I would doubt how long they last so it’s hard to say which option is cheaper but getting tyre sets changed is no mean feat and something I’d prefer is as least often as possible. The prices have got hard to stomach though, but the miles they do and the size of them is not surprising! Especially with the cost of oil, transport and freight etc. No Guts, No Glory. 🇬🇧🏴🏴🏴🇮🇪🇺🇸⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪 |
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6th Feb 2024 4:46pm |
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