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Waysider

Member Since: 26 Oct 2016
Location: Surrey
Posts: 9

2010 Defender 110 2.5 n/a Diesel CSW Galway Green

Replacing a turbo?

Can anyone offer me some advice please? I am told by a reputable specialist Land Rover garage that I have to replace the tubo on my 2010 Defender 110 XS, which I have had from new and is on approximately 90,000 miles with no major work previously required, other then routine and regular servicing. About a year ago I suffered a sudden loss of power as the vehicle dropped into "limp mode". After a while, and a short stop, it ran as normal, but then the same thing occurred later during the same long journey. Again I stopped, re-started, and the engine was back to normal and remained so for many months. I had the vehicle examined and it was suggested the turbo was the problem. Fault codes were checked and an intercooler hose to throttle body was replaced, just in case it solved the problem. Due to various lock-downs, I have not used the vehicle as much as usual, but I had no recurrence of the problem. The vehicle has had a full authorised service since then. Last month the problem came back. On a journey it dropped into "limp mode" and remained so until I could pull over and stop the engine. On restart it was running normally again. Several weeks went by and then it happened again, this time close to home. My garage have had the vehicle on test for several days, checked the fault codes etc, and have concluded it is the turbo and it must be replaced. They recommend fitting a genuine Land Rover replacement, at a cost of in excess of £1,000 and with the labour (about 7 to 8 hours) added, I have been told the final bill will be in the region of £2,500. They said they found exactly the same codes on another Defender XS and replaced the turbo and the problem has been solved. I am prepared to have this work done as I have no plans to part with this vehicle and it is worth considerably more than the cost of the repair. Later this summer I will be away in it for a month in the Scottish highlands and islands, so do not want to risk it dropping into limp mode there. But before I commit to the work - and the expense - I thought I would seek advice from others who may have experienced the same problem. Any thoughts please? Best wishes, Stewart

22nd Jul 2021 10:29am

hank

Member Since: 12 Sep 2016
Location: South Wales
Posts: 2290

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

Do you know the fault code that was logged more recently?

Not "P0234-00 (28 ) turbo overboost condition" by any chance? > 110 XS Double Cab

22nd Jul 2021 11:56am

Waysider

Member Since: 26 Oct 2016
Location: Surrey
Posts: 9

I will find out the fault code when I speak to the garage. Who do you ask? Some previous experience?

22nd Jul 2021 12:06pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17319

I would be cautious with this, 90k is not a high mileage for a turbo and it should not need replacing. The most likely cause of a "turbo fault" on a TDCi would be malfunction of the turbo actuator (often caused by an external wiring fault).

Landrover does not supply the actuator without the turbo, so a dealer will tell you you need a new turbo complete, whilst the actuator is available on its own from other sources (eg Ford). If it is an actuator fault, you will reduce the bill by 90% by not following Landrover's "advice" and instead replacing the actuator.

Most (but not all) actuator faults are caused by mechanical damage to the wiring harness which runs round the front of the engine, and are therefore easy to fix.

If you really do need a new turbo a turbo specialist will probably be substantially cheaper than Landrover.

If you could provide the actual diagnostic codes we should be able to determine with more probability where the fault lies, but my advice is do not rush in to paying a huge bill!

Waysider wrote:
... an intercooler hose to throttle body ...

Er, you don't have a "throttle body" on a TDCi !

Waysider wrote:
... with the labour (about 7 to 8 hours) added ...

It shouldn't take more than an hour (one man hour) to change a turbo on a TDCi.

I am a little uneasy about your garage!

22nd Jul 2021 12:29pm

carrotbay

Member Since: 18 Aug 2013
Location: Northants, UK
Posts: 699

2008 Defender 110 BMW M57 3.0 Diesel XS CSW Auto Santorini Black

I second that .. 7 to 8 hours is ridiculous. I can do it on the drive in a couple of hours and I'm not a trained mechanic. Land Rover quote 90 minutes for the job.

It's highly unlikely the complete turbo is required to be changed. There's an extension to the wiring harness for the actuator available as it's tight around the front of the engine and can fail. I had a intemittent problem with this a few years ago. The extension Part number is LR020663 and it was around £25. Or as said above it could be the actuator itself.

https://www.johncraddockltd.co.uk/lr020663...-tdci.html

No matter what I wouldn't be going genuine parts for this or paying that amount of labour. 2008 Defender 110 XS SW - M57N2 / 6HP28X

22nd Jul 2021 12:48pm

hank

Member Since: 12 Sep 2016
Location: South Wales
Posts: 2290

Have a read of this https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic79499.html > 110 XS Double Cab

22nd Jul 2021 1:27pm

Waysider

Member Since: 26 Oct 2016
Location: Surrey
Posts: 9

The above replies are very helpful, and plenty of food for thought. Just to be clear, mine is the 2.4 diesel engine, 2010 model, 110 station wagon.
I plan to quiz my garage for more fault code details when I collect it today, and I will not commit to the repair at this stage. It is not a Land Rover dealership, but a garage called SLR in Haslemere, Surrey, which specialises in Land Rover and with staff having worked for Land Rover in the past. I have been using them for a year, and have no complaints.
When they first examined this issue, in September last year, they speculated that the turbo was at fault and causing the "limp mode" to activate. I quite from their invoice: "Check fault codes...carried out smoke test on intake system. Possible leak from intercooler hose to throttle body. S&F hose. If fault returns will require new turbo".
Regarding other comments made on this forum thread, can it be that to replace a turbo is a 90 minute job, or was that for something else?
I am very grateful for comments so far and will add more when I collect the vehicle. If there is another recommended Land Rover garage near me, SW Surrey, I am open to try elsewhere for a "second opinion".
Thanks again.

22nd Jul 2021 1:39pm

Waysider

Member Since: 26 Oct 2016
Location: Surrey
Posts: 9

I have collected my vehicle from the garage, and put any turbo replacement on hold, thanks to this helpful forum.
The fault code I have been given is P2263-21 turbo charger boost, system support signal. I was told that it read a fault on 13/6/21 and I have checked my diary, and that is not one of the two recent occasions when limp mode occurred.

22nd Jul 2021 3:00pm

hank

Member Since: 12 Sep 2016
Location: South Wales
Posts: 2290

P2263-21 Turbocharger/Supercharger Boost System Performance- Signal amplitude < minimum

Possible Causes:
Intake system blocked/leaking
Manifold absolute pressure and temperature sensor fault
Variable geometry turbine vane actuator fault
Turbocharger failure

Action:
Check the intake system for blockages/leaks,
check for manifold absolute pressure and temperature sensor related DTCs and perform the relevant corrective actions
Check the variable geometry turbine vane actuator linkage.
Check the turbocharger bearing and oil seal. Install a new turbocharger as necessary.

Cut and pasted the above from B.A.S. website. > 110 XS Double Cab

22nd Jul 2021 3:07pm

ickle

Member Since: 22 Jul 2010
Location: South Vendee
Posts: 1776

2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Alpine White

Mine did exactly as you described, random times, and in the end would switch it off and on whilst on the motorway to get the boost back on - it was the variable vanes sticking, ignition on and off resets it.

(I had in the meantime swapped the egr, done the wiring mod and all other possibilities)

I got a brand new turbo from Germany, £660 delivered plus a new gasket an afternoon swearing on the drive and all has been good since.

Keith

22nd Jul 2021 8:09pm

Waysider

Member Since: 26 Oct 2016
Location: Surrey
Posts: 9

I have looked elsewhere, and visited a garage that confirmed what an earlier message on this thread stated - that Land Rover quote 90 minutes for replacing a turbo. This garage was also prepared to look at quality after-market turbos, so I am beginning to think I may not have to pay out the sum I was originally quoted. I am very grateful for the guidance I have received on this forum. Thank you, and any other observations are most welcome.

24th Jul 2021 1:40pm

astroarcadia

Member Since: 12 Jun 2020
Location: Gloucestershire
Posts: 49

I have this exact problem with mine and am about to buy a new turbo complete.

I have checked hoses, sensors, the actuator arm etc.

All simple cheap fixes have been exhausted.

I'm going to book it in tomorrow.

Can anyone recommend a garage in North Cornwall as that's where the vehicle is for the summer?

Is it worth getting the EGR blanked whilst the vehicle is in the garage?

25th Jul 2021 10:14pm

ickle

Member Since: 22 Jul 2010
Location: South Vendee
Posts: 1776

egr blank is a digital tune as a blanking plate will light the amber fault light on your dash.

I've since seen a video where a specialist used an aerosol cleaner through the air box (filter removed) on a RR sport and fixed a similar fault - not sure I'd want to risk dislodged accumulated crud going straight into the engine though........

26th Jul 2021 7:46am

jst

Member Since: 14 Jan 2008
Location: Taunton
Posts: 7987

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Stornoway Grey

ickle wrote:
Mine did exactly as you described, random times, and in the end would switch it off and on whilst on the motorway to get the boost back on - it was the variable vanes sticking, ignition on and off resets it.

My 60k mile 2007 also did this ^^^^ .

Does your go to limp mode after a period of constant throttle position, ie tc vanes at same boost position? Does ignition cycle always clear it?

Mine was yes and yes to above. I used a turbo vane cleaner direct into the turbo inlet. Resolved the problem. Ran vehicle another 18mths with no further problems. Cheers

James
110 2012 XS Utility
130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper
90 2010 Hardtop
90 M57 1988 Hardtop

26th Jul 2021 7:13pm

Waysider

Member Since: 26 Oct 2016
Location: Surrey
Posts: 9

Thank you all for your contributions. I now know that my original quote for replacing the turbo was way over the top. Nevertheless, I do think all the evidence points towards me having to replace it, and as I intend to keep this vehicle, and have several quite long overland trips planned in the year ahead, I now have to decide on whether to fit a genuine Land Rover replacement at around £842 for the turbo, plus additional expenditure on additional parts plus sump drain and oil strainer replacement (to meet warranty requirements) or a reconditioned turbo at around £417 with no requirement on sump strainer etc. Given my intention to keep the vehicle, and use it on long overseas trips and a month-long Scottish highlands and islands visit this autumn, should I invest in a genuine part? Can a recon part be trusted or is it false economy. Any final thoughts please?

27th Jul 2021 12:50pm

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