 | Home > INEOS Grenadier > Grenadier arrives in the US of A |
 
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018   
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Some excerpts from the article :
"TREAD flew to Houston, Texas, to take a first look at their new prodigy, the INEOS Grenadier. This is INEOS Automotive’s first-ever prototype. Its interior was bare-bones functional and not representative of what’s to come. Stay tuned, interior details and an in-depth look is coming soon." " Pre-wired cabling and switches are also planned. This makes a winch and auxiliary lights a plug-and-play affair." " Also on board is a towing capacity of 7,000 pounds and a static rooftop load of about 750 pounds—perfect for roof top tent opportunities." " Two engine types are available. The INEOS Grenadier will house a straight-six BMW gasoline engine paired to an eight-speed transmission with manual shifting capability. The diesel powerplant, however, will remain overseas—at least to start with." " The UK will expect the Grenadier in 2022. The U.S. and Canada can anticipate it sometime in 2023. INEOS is still determining its dealer network, interior, and final details. However, we’re excited to have another 4×4 contender battling it out in the off-road world."  Click image to enlarge https://www.treadmagazine.com/vehicles/ine...-best-4x4/ |
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5th Jun 2021 4:56pm |
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| 22900013A Member Since: 23 Dec 2010 Location: Oxfordshire Posts: 3149 
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"manual shifting capability"
So not a full manual then? I thought they were using the same auto box as the new Defender? 2011 110 USW 1973 Series III 1-Ton 1972 Series III 1-Ton Cherrypicker 1969 IIA 1-Ton 1966 IIA 88" |
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5th Jun 2021 8:47pm |
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| markb110 Member Since: 22 May 2010 Location: Guildford Posts: 2633  
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Resguy
Do you think that a French built vehicle will ever take on the Toyota Four Runner, Jeep Wrangler or Bronco? It won’t make a dent in Fords F trucks. Will it need to be built in the US to have that ‘Made in the United States’ so the consumer knows that they are supporting US jobs. The US has such a great range of vehicles to choose from it would be interesting to see who they believe is their customer base. Just like us here in the UK, we will just have to wait and see…… |
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6th Jun 2021 5:13am |
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| kenzle8a Member Since: 12 Feb 2020 Location: None Posts: 1074 
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If the Americans buying L633s is an indication they don’t seem to have an issue with an expensive SUV built in the EU
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6th Jun 2021 7:18am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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In terms of French built vehicles in the US, do PSA (Peugeot, Citroen, DS, Opel / Vauxhall) have an official presence?
So that might just leave Smart, built in the same factory as the Grenadier. |
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6th Jun 2021 7:51am |
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| DSC-off Member Since: 16 Oct 2014 Location: North East Posts: 1400 
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^ Stellantis group (Peugeot, Fiat, Chrysler) currently build the Jeep Renegade in Italy and ship them to the US, along with various Fiat models.
With Peugeot now being the dominant partner, I don't think it will be long before French built vehicles either join or replace the Italian ones. |
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6th Jun 2021 9:36am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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Click image to enlarge "HOUSTON — Greg Clark, vice president of the Americas for Ineos Automotive, part of the British chemical company launching a rugged Land Rover Defender-like off-road vehicle in early 2023, has just one job: every job. Clark, a former Jaguar Land Rover and Daimler marketing executive who was named to his post at Ineos in February, has on his to-do list: Select a location for the U.S. headquarters for the automotive operation of Ineos, which late next summer will begin building the Grenadier off-road vehicle in a former Daimler plant in Hambach, France, minutes from the German border. Figure out how best to get vehicles to dealers in all 50 states. Clark says he’s leaning toward appointing regional distributors that would deliver to multiple dealers instead of offering franchises to individual retailers. Hire the marketers, compliance managers, warranty administrators, zone managers, parts and service personnel and others who will staff the company’s U.S. arm and ensure that vehicles and parts get delivered on time and with no defects. Just about everything else. Ineos Group has sites in the U.S. that handle its chemical and other businesses. Its U.S. headquarters is in the Houston suburb of League City, but the location is not suitable, Clark says, for the automotive division. He views the placement of the automotive headquarters as critical to the division’s success. Right now, he’s scrutinizing cities on the Eastern Seaboard, which has a number of ports used by other importers, the proper transportation in place to rapidly move vehicles and parts, and good access to potential employees with automotive experience. “We have to make the right decision,” said Clark during an event here to show an early version of the Grenadier to the media. “Being in an area where we can attract good talent and attract talent from other places of the country and that has the appropriate infrastructure is a big driver.” The ideal location, he says, will be within reasonable driving distance of somewhere the Grenadier can be used for its intended purpose: punishing off-road driving. Clark has been looking in Atlanta and the Carolinas. The Georgia capital is home to Porsche and Mercedes-Benz as well as Triumph Motorcycles America." https://newsnationusa.com/news/autonews/in...adier-suv/ |
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7th Jun 2021 11:40am |
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| ResGuy68 Member Since: 15 May 2021 Location: Austin Posts: 26 
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That's an interesting question. We've certainly seen demand on the margin for imports. The $150k G-Wagon is selling nearly 10k units per year in the USA and the Land Rover / Range Rover offerings around 20k units per year. That said, the "mainstream" body-on-frame market is pretty cored up to 3 competitors (4runner, Wrangler, Bronco). Each vehicle sells or is projected to sell 100k+ units per year. And they do so at average sale prices in the mid-40k to mid-50k USD range (keep in mind that emissions/tax burdens are much lower in the USA). I believe the Wrangler is viewed as one of the most profitable vehicles in the USA from a margins and gross profit standpoint. I haven't seen strong consumer identity specific to these brands. I own a 4runner and am cross-shopping Jeeps, Broncos (and the Grenadier). Friends of mine who are also shopping for body-on-frame vehicles are generally pricing and comparing options across all 3 offerings. On the "made in the USA"... I just don't see it being a huge draw. The 4Runner is actually manufactured in Japan and many of the Tacomas in Mexico. This hasn't eroded consumer preferences. I would note that BMW, Volkswagen, Land Rover, Fiat, and (to a lesser extent) Mercedes do carry negative brand perception in the US market with respect to reliability. Too many people have had terrible experiences in these vehicles (particularly with respect to cost of repair) and will never entertain an offering by any automaker in that "group." As an interesting aside, those people show no hesitations with respect to purchase of "cheap" Kia or Hyundai offerings. I believe that the Grenadier can avoid this negative brand perception with the caveat of its' engine. Magna and like suppliers are very well respected in the US 4x4 community. Minimal electronics reduces worries about "the jaguar effect." The engine and its' association to BMW is the worry. However, I think that INEOS can pre-empt this through careful marketing along the likes of "good enough for Toyota" (in the Supra). I see an opportunity for the automobile as the 4th "offroad capabile" middle-market SUV. It's such a large market and an offering of comparable quality (or even slightly inferior) would likely capture sales due to diversity of consumer preference (people like different aesthetics). I'm certainly in that camp as somebody who (i) loves the grenadier aesthetic and (ii) wants a fixed-top SUV with a modern powerplant (i.e. better than the 4runner). It'll be interesting to see how they position the Grenadier. They only have manufacturing capabilities for 30k/year in unit sales. Just 5% of the USA offroad capabile middle market (~500k units/year) puts INEOS at 25k/year units. It's unlikely that they'd be able to fulfill even just that, much less the volume requirements of being a "true" 4th competitor. They may elect to position the Grenadier in the upper market (I.e. Land Rover / Tahoe / G-Wagon) price range. They will sell fewer but will have MUCH higher gross margins. They might target $10-15k USD gross margins in the USA middle market vs potential for $20-40k USD gross margins in the upper market. This would limit their sales opportunity to 5-20k units/year but would be more profitable than 30k units per year at lower gross margin. It'll ultimately depend on INEOS's strategy for long-term value creation ("harvest" of the upper-market vs future growth/expansion in the middle market). |
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7th Jun 2021 2:57pm |
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| ResGuy68 Member Since: 15 May 2021 Location: Austin Posts: 26
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Final add. Negative perceptions of European automaker reliability are generally driven by views on "poor design" (i.e. overengineered) vs "poor manufacturing." I believe this is important with respect to how INEOS could be perceived.
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7th Jun 2021 2:59pm |
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| markb110 Member Since: 22 May 2010 Location: Guildford Posts: 2633
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Thanks for taking your time to answer Resguy
I’ve been lucky to do a few road trips in the US so also interesting to see what vehicles are used and where. US You Tube Off road and overland lifestyle channels are (or appear) brand loyal, your a Jeep guy or a Toyota guy. The Bronco from what I have seen seems to challenge the traditional Jeep guys because it will be as adaptable as the Wrangler. The Grenadier, from what we have seen, is less adaptable in comparisons so could the boxy body and more modern engine be a positive alternative to the 4 Runner. As always choice is good for the consumer. |
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7th Jun 2021 4:01pm |
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| 90 Dreamer Member Since: 13 Jul 2019 Location: Oop North Posts: 2148 
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"Boxy" is one way to describe it I guess.........
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7th Jun 2021 6:47pm |
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| markb110 Member Since: 22 May 2010 Location: Guildford Posts: 2633
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Boxy" is one way to describe it I guess......... Embarassed
Hopefully they won’t see the bumper….  Too late  |
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7th Jun 2021 7:15pm |
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| ResGuy68 Member Since: 15 May 2021 Location: Austin Posts: 26
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Happy to share. I agree that there are passionate groups of Jeep/4Runner owners in the USA. My personal view is that consumer loyalty preferences are simply an expression of the duopoly nature of the market for so long (Wrangler or 4Runner) and the stark differences between the offerings (IFS vs SFA, removable vs fixed top). Most the people I've known have purchased Jeeps despite they fact that they're made by FCA (noisy and hot). Likewise, people have purchased a 4Runner despite the fact that it has an antiquated powerplant. These relative advantages or disadvantages haven't changed much over the last 20 years. It would make sense that consumer preferences are also little changed. I would note that the excitement surrounding the Bronco is an indicator of just how much unfulfilled demand there is in the market. Lots of current 4runner or Jeep owners among the Bronco reservation pool. |
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7th Jun 2021 9:50pm |
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| Bluest Member Since: 23 Apr 2016 Location: Lancashire Posts: 4209 
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Expedition Portal’s North American perspective here.
Interesting that they see themselves in a golden era of off road vehicles whilst over here it’s about as bad as it’s ever been. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS |
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9th Jun 2021 9:59am |
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