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cedric_r

Member Since: 07 May 2021
Location: Bordeaux
Posts: 4

300tdi stalls randomly

Hi there,

I have some mechanical question for you guys (and gals): recently, my 300tdi started to randomly stall on the road. It would lose power, then slow down, the sput sput, the stall. It would them be impossible to restart for a while, the battery appearing flat and not turning the engine (though recharged to full just before).

For info, the 90 doesn't really do much these days, and stays stationary for months at a time, normally with battery unplugged.

I changed the fuel filter just in case it contained crap or water (easy fixed first).

I thought it could be the battery. But this morning, having done nothing since the last stall yesterday, it turned the engine fine for a while after I changed the filter and it purged the system of air. When the engine runs, the voltage is at 14 or above when charging.

I considered electrical issues, but what? The solenoid in the fuel pump that decides to close the circuit? I'd think the power loss would be more brutal if that was the case. Also if you're careful you can just about keep the engine running (not moving the car of course) until the problem passes and then it's back to normal.

It's never done that before, so I'm at a loss. What do you think it could be?

Thanks.

7th May 2021 7:57am

donmacn

Member Since: 06 Nov 2017
Location: Nth Scotland
Posts: 1848

Hi Cedric.

I had two similar sorts of experiences;

One time, I was just losing power. It would idle/run OK, but was 'gutless'. I must have been closer to the garage that did my servicing. Turned in there, the owner 'guddled' about ( a good Scots word!) behind the turbo and said something about the turbo wastgate actuator rod sticking. This might not be your issue, but worth a thought maybe.

Second time, sounds more like your symptoms. I was some way from home, small rural roads, up and down, and whenever I tried to get any revs, to climb hills or accelerate the ending would just die away. I don't think it ever stopped, but if I put any load on it, it would very nearly stall. I had to nurse it to the nearest town to try and find a garage. 10/15mph max.

They were too busy, so the car sat switched off for a while. Turned it back on, and it was fine. Headed home. On the way home after about 15 miles the symptoms came back.

My best guess was that there was 'something' in the fuel line - a flake of rust from inside the tank, or a bit of 'sludge' from some poor home-made biodiesel I'd got from someone. My thoughts were: if it was idling, or not being asked for too much power, then enough fuel was making it's way past the obstruction that it would drop back down the pipe and away from the lift pump. Then. if I asked for too much fuel, the obstruction would move up the pipe and block the inlet to the pump.

I wasn't maintaining my car personally at that stage, so I think the work done was to change the lift pump and drain some fuel through the supply line. That issue never came back for me.

Have you changed anything recently around the fuel supply? Tank, or lines, or lift pump?

(PS - if you haven't renewed it recently, it's the work of a few moments to crimp on a new connecter for the fuel pump solenoid, and it just eliminates that as an issue. I did have problems with mine once, and for 5 minutes work it was fixed.) Donald

1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong
(The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html )
2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8

in the past..
RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi
1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box
1993 Discovery 300Tdi

not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper...

7th May 2021 8:16am

cedric_r

Member Since: 07 May 2021
Location: Bordeaux
Posts: 4

Hi there,

Thanks for the reply.

No I didn't change anything recently. It sat for 5 months outside at a body shop last year after the roof of our barn fell on it. The problems started after that. Normally it sleeps in the barn.

The last time it happened I managed to keep it running. Just. But when it happened before that it just stalled and there was nothing I could do: the accelerator had no effect.

Another bit of information: the MOT guys said the emissions were fluctuating slightly. Also when I was trying to keep it running the last time it tried to stall, keeping the accelerator at a fixed point I could hear the engine reving more or less on its own. I suspect these 2 are linked.

I thought it could be the lift pump, but it starts really well. And even if the lift pump wasn't working, the engine would suck in enough fuel to run without stalling. It would just not start well (of course, I'm talking from old memories and I have way more experience fiddling with the td5).

So I'm totally puzzled.

Thanks.

7th May 2021 8:30am

donmacn

Member Since: 06 Nov 2017
Location: Nth Scotland
Posts: 1848

Well, if it starts OK, and the electrical side is checking out fine, then these old things are so basic it almost has to be fuelling somehow.

If it's sat outside, maybe condensation on the roof of the tank has led to corrosion, and/or degraded fuel. I think I'd be looking at the line between the tank and the lift pump as my first, next thing.

Emissions fluctuating because the fuel supply is fluctuating?

Hopefully a grown up with some more experience might come along shortly, but I'd want to be sure the engine was getting a strong supply of clean fuel as part of any diagnostics. Donald

1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong
(The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html )
2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8

in the past..
RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi
1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box
1993 Discovery 300Tdi

not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper...

7th May 2021 8:40am

cedric_r

Member Since: 07 May 2021
Location: Bordeaux
Posts: 4

I think you're right. I suspect more and more bad fuel because of having sat for a ver long time.

Is there an easy way to drain the tank?

7th May 2021 8:58am

PAT303

Member Since: 25 Feb 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 125

1998 Defender 110 300 Tdi SW Alpine White

Clean the water trap and change the fuel filter, simple things first

9th May 2021 10:03pm

donmacn

Member Since: 06 Nov 2017
Location: Nth Scotland
Posts: 1848

Hi,
Sorry - been away from web/pc.

Pat - Is there a water trap on 300 Tdi Defenders? I was completely unaware, checked, and I think it's a Disco thing (or maybe ROW spec - inc Aus?) I've owned and driven my Defender for 20 years and never found such a thing. Not picking a fight - every day's a school day.

Fuel filter - yeah, that does make sense - cheap enough, and if you've decided to 'refresh' the fuel system that would be part of it.

Cedric - my experience is 110s not 90s but I'm fairly sure there's a fuel drain bung in the tanks. If you can find the parts diagram on 'new lr cat' or 'lr workshop' that will show you for sure. Donald

1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong
(The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html )
2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8

in the past..
RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi
1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box
1993 Discovery 300Tdi

not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper...

9th May 2021 10:16pm

I Like Old Skool

Member Since: 23 Feb 2015
Location: Manchester
Posts: 820

1994 Defender 110 300 Tdi ST Coniston Green

I had a similar issue last summer.

Turned out the fuel lift pump on the side of the engine had failed but that wasn't the problem as the tdi can run without it. What was the problem was a blocked strainer gauze inside the lift pump. This was full of muck and once cleaned out the engine ran fine while i got around to fitting a replacement.

This gauze isn't mentioned anywhere and was a surprise discovery for me but can be cleaned out with the pump in-situ, just a single screw holding the cap on.

10th May 2021 4:02am

PAT303

Member Since: 25 Feb 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 125

Hey Donald, mate under the rear off side wheel well for the water trap, it's an alloy casing about the size of a beer can, if you haven't cleaned it it could be the problem.

10th May 2021 7:26am

Mo Murphy

Member Since: 01 Jun 2008
Location: Letchworth Garden City, Herts
Posts: 2248

1984 Defender 90 BMW M57 3.0 Diesel HT Auto Pennine Grey

Don, have you tried driving it with no fuel cap to rule out tank breather problems ?
Mo The Land Rover 90 - Many are called, few are chosen.

50 Shades of Pennine Grey

10th May 2021 2:57pm

Oldowner

Member Since: 26 Dec 2018
Location: South west
Posts: 626

2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Aintree Green

PAT303 wrote:
Hey Donald, mate under the rear off side wheel well for the water trap, it's an alloy casing about the size of a beer can, if you haven't cleaned it it could be the problem.

Not fitted on a UK 300tdi.

Blocked lift pump gauze as above - these are only fitted to Delphi lift pumps with a flat head screw retaining the top cap. The cap has to be refitted correctly as there is a small keyway otherwise it will drag air.

Also check for rusted pickup pipe on top of tank, pinholes can drag air in.

10th May 2021 3:55pm

donmacn

Member Since: 06 Nov 2017
Location: Nth Scotland
Posts: 1848

Hi guys,
Good, useful info coming forward. Just to confirm though, I'm all good - car's running well even(!) I was just recounting some of my experiences to try and help Cedric, the OP get to the bottom of his issue. Donald

1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong
(The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html )
2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8

in the past..
RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi
1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box
1993 Discovery 300Tdi

not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper...

10th May 2021 5:45pm

Mo Murphy

Member Since: 01 Jun 2008
Location: Letchworth Garden City, Herts
Posts: 2248

Cedric, have you tried driving it with no fuel cap to rule out tank breather problems ?
Mo 😁 The Land Rover 90 - Many are called, few are chosen.

50 Shades of Pennine Grey

10th May 2021 8:48pm

PAT303

Member Since: 25 Feb 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 125

Oldowner wrote:
PAT303 wrote:
Hey Donald, mate under the rear off side wheel well for the water trap, it's an alloy casing about the size of a beer can, if you haven't cleaned it it could be the problem.

Not fitted on a UK 300tdi.

Blocked lift pump gauze as above - these are only fitted to Delphi lift pumps with a flat head screw retaining the top cap. The cap has to be refitted correctly as there is a small keyway otherwise it will drag air.

Also check for rusted pickup pipe on top of tank, pinholes can drag air in.

That's strange, don't you guys get water in your diesel?

12th May 2021 10:20am

Lodelaner

Member Since: 04 Feb 2010
Location: Lambourn
Posts: 633

1988 Defender 90 V8 Petrol ST Shire Blue

Re: 300tdi stalls randomly

cedric_r wrote:

I have some mechanical question for you guys (and gals): recently, my 300tdi started to randomly stall on the road. It would lose power, then slow down, the sput sput, the stall. It would them be impossible to restart for a while, the battery appearing flat and not turning the engine (though recharged to full just before).

I thought it could be the battery. But this morning, having done nothing since the last stall yesterday, it turned the engine fine for a while after I changed the filter and it purged the system of air. When the engine runs, the voltage is at 14 or above when charging.

I considered electrical issues, but what? The solenoid in the fuel pump that decides to close the circuit? I'd think the power loss would be more brutal if that was the case. Also if you're careful you can just about keep the engine running (not moving the car of course) until the problem passes and then it's back to normal.

The progressively restricted fuel supply, stalling and then the engine refusing to turn over despite a fully charged battery would have me looking at the engine earth. An open circuit would be consistent with the engine not turning over and a rarely used car. I wonder if the fuel shut off solenoid is constricting - and the juddering engine is agitating the earth?

IIRC the strap is on the starter motor. If in doubt run a jump lead from the engine to the battery earth next time it happens to eliminate engine earthing as a problem.

As with all things a methodical approach starting with 1) electrical supply 2) circuit 3) individual components is the approach I'd take.

Good luck! JB

@Lodelaner Instagram

Youtube greenlaning and other LR related content

12th May 2021 12:31pm

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