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jst

Member Since: 14 Jan 2008
Location: Taunton
Posts: 8008

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Stornoway Grey

td5 difficult to start when left and Cut out after load

Morning

am trying to help fix a mates 2004 td5 110. std vehicle no remap.

It struggles to start if left 2hrs or so having been turned off on the ignition. By struggling it takes two turns of starter motor to start. it fires and runs on 2nd turn. once started she runs as intend - smooth

Once running at tickover it runs like that for ever, turns off and restarts no problem as long as not left in between.

when its running if you go up through the gears (pulls well) as you come off the power the engine will cut out. Once the engine has cut out it takes a considerable amount of cranking to get it to go. Purging the fuel system or not at this times between crank efforts makes no odds. Flooring the accelerator helps it go.

When it does eventually then start from a cut out. they is excess grey smoke, engine is lumpy for quite a while. diesel knock at times.

if you drive it similar to limp mode it runs stops/starts fine (until left) if you drive it harder/normally it cuts out everytime when coming off the power.

Cant be replicated unless driving.

Prior to all this the starter motor was clicking and replaced. the non start problem and cutting out started after the starter motor was replaced. or should i say became evident at this time. Prior to Sm change it would of had 20/30 attempts ign on/off to get it to turn. (ie 20/30 possible priming cycles)

Fuel pressure at the regulator is 4bar with ign on, engine running and at times of cutting out. it stays 4 bar when cranking.

Oil was evident in the engine loom, injector loom replaced.
Oil cleaned from ECU plug
ECU opened up and no oil inside it.

Filter changed, twice
NRV has been replaced.
Bleed valve has been replaced.
filter housing replaced.
Starter motor changed (initial problem)
Fuel pressure regulator changed as old one leaking, it subsequently did 100miles with new SM and FPR no cut out problems.

thoughts? injector seals is next on the list. Cheers

James
110 2012 XS Utility
130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper
90 2010 Hardtop
90 M57 1988 Hardtop

1st Feb 2021 12:37pm

davidblythe

Member Since: 27 Apr 2019
Location: Cheam, Surrey
Posts: 110

next logical step would be injector seals

do you have access to a nanaocom to do live data readings when the engines is running 1999 90 TD5 CSW
2006 110 TD5 HD Commercial

1st Feb 2021 4:47pm

kenzle8a

Member Since: 12 Feb 2020
Location: None
Posts: 1074

I never had starting or running issues, however when I did my injector loom after the initial clean I've had to take the ECU out a few times as the loom drained into the plug over a couple of months.

1st Feb 2021 5:13pm

dorsetsmith

Member Since: 30 Oct 2011
Location: South West
Posts: 4554

live data and read from crankshaft speed & position sender CKP

1st Feb 2021 6:14pm

jst

Member Since: 14 Jan 2008
Location: Taunton
Posts: 8008

I dont have access to a reader I am afraid. Worng obd for anything I have.

Changed injector washers and seals yesterday, seems greatly improved today. Will see what its like on a cold start. Cheers

James
110 2012 XS Utility
130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper
90 2010 Hardtop
90 M57 1988 Hardtop

2nd Feb 2021 4:25pm

geobloke

Member Since: 06 Nov 2012
Location: Nottinghamshire
Posts: 4410

Quote:
when its running if you go up through the gears (pulls well) as you come off the power the engine will cut out. Once the engine has cut out it takes a considerable amount of cranking to get it to go. Purging the fuel system or not at this times between crank efforts makes no odds. Flooring the accelerator helps it go.

This part of the story screams ECU topside switch issues to me as it is exactly how mine exhibited itself. Its the coming off the power and cutting out then taking forever to restart again. I have spent a few hairy moments at junctions because of this fault. Nanocom will confirm the fault and it will likely be 28-07 topside switch failure.

The solutions will be sending the ECU off for repair or source a replacement.

2nd Feb 2021 5:02pm

geobloke

Member Since: 06 Nov 2012
Location: Nottinghamshire
Posts: 4410

dorsetsmith wrote:
live data and read from crankshaft speed & position sender CKP

Can this be done on a Nanocom Dorset?

2nd Feb 2021 5:02pm

dorsetsmith

Member Since: 30 Oct 2011
Location: South West
Posts: 4554

yes engine rpm

2nd Feb 2021 5:18pm

jst

Member Since: 14 Jan 2008
Location: Taunton
Posts: 8008

cheers Guys, well hopefully its not a ECU issue topside failure!

Have changed the injector seals. 3 injectors almost fell out they were loose in the head. has done 20 or so miles today and no repeat cutting out (yet) cold started well. some dieselly smelly thin oil in rocker, have changed engine oil and filters.

seems stat is fully open as well, engine temp not over 45deg today and free flowing through the rad! Cheers

James
110 2012 XS Utility
130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper
90 2010 Hardtop
90 M57 1988 Hardtop

2nd Feb 2021 8:53pm

geobloke

Member Since: 06 Nov 2012
Location: Nottinghamshire
Posts: 4410

Don't get me wrong JST I hope it isn't the topside failure as well... The thought of slowing to a junction and the engine cutting out never really leaves you, just sits there niggling in the back of your mind... Will it dies this time

4th Feb 2021 1:03pm

jst

Member Since: 14 Jan 2008
Location: Taunton
Posts: 8008

All sorted, injector seals! A fuel pressure gauge is a worthwhile diagnostic investment, other indications were the pump! Cheers

James
110 2012 XS Utility
130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper
90 2010 Hardtop
90 M57 1988 Hardtop

5th Feb 2021 7:39am

MalteseRover

Member Since: 02 Jul 2013
Location: Gozo
Posts: 137

Hi, tagging along. Defender td5 2003 with remap started acting up on start ups.

The fuel pump starting making a short (few seconds) purging sound from last fuel filter replacement (July 2020 i think). The purge sequence was suggested here (turning key to on position and let it time out and wait for 30 seconds before turning the key again to the on position for 6 times) this worked before with previous filters (once a year) Despite this short purging sound it developed it started always on first attempt. Fuel pump was always quiet in this period.

As from this morning it did start but then died out. It starts over on second crank and with pedal to the floor. I did not notice any noises on the morning run but later one today on a long run I turned it off for say 5 minutes and when I got back at it it spun but no igniting sounds. then second attempt it was ok. along the way the pump developed a strong whine. audible with windows down at idle. Seems to run fine (power wise)

I reached for the fuel lines that run on the chassis rail and the innermost was pulsing and vibrating as if there was an air problem.

Filter housing changed 3 years ago. FPR about a year or so ago (was leaking) Fuel pump? injector seals? Battery was in the Landy when i got it 4 or so years ago - needs checking ?

9th Feb 2021 6:56pm

jst

Member Since: 14 Jan 2008
Location: Taunton
Posts: 8008

td5 prime sequence is ignition on and pump accelerator pedal 6 times within 10s. engine management light will flash and it will run a purge cycle for 3mins or so. when finished turn ignition off then attempt start.

flooring the accelerator overfuels the bores.

Whats the pressure at the reg?

Is there any air i the supply or return? Cheers

James
110 2012 XS Utility
130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper
90 2010 Hardtop
90 M57 1988 Hardtop

9th Feb 2021 7:32pm

MalteseRover

Member Since: 02 Jul 2013
Location: Gozo
Posts: 137

i have just attempted a first start today.

ignition on, Purge sound (for just 1 second) then gentle whine/humming sound of pump was noticeable before start up and started as usual. I should let sleeping dogs lay? idle seemed ok on the Nanocom it read 745rpm. At idle the pump sound was hardly noticeable (when head in wheel-arch) The hoses which are vibrating and pulsing are the high pressure return line (From engine) and the Low pressure return (from filter to pump) Normal?

I always top up when fuel gauge is nearing the orange bracket. Yesterday it was running on full tank due to long trip to main island.

How to check fuel pressure?

10th Feb 2021 9:22am

rallysteve

Member Since: 10 Feb 2014
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 2225

2002 Defender 110 Td5 DCPU Keswick Green

Sounds exactly like the injector seal symptoms. When were they last done? - If more than 5yrs I would just change them.

Steve 02' 110 TD5 Double Cab Rebuild Thread

10th Feb 2021 9:42am

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