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Hufflepuff

Member Since: 25 Oct 2014
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 727

How to prevent a stripped thread on the stub axle?

I appear to have made a bit of a faux pas (again).

I had a niggling doubt that when I built up the puma-spec front axle, I used a standard sized oil seal on the back of the swivel ball, having not realised that the Ashcroft heavy duty half shaft box had a couple of these seals in the bottom of the box, with the instructions to use those instead of the standard ones due to a size difference - if I had a certain spline count.

They looked very similar to me comparing them side by side, but I know that it would be niggling me if I didn't swap it, so I stripped the side down to change it - a messy job as I had already filled that side with one-shot grease. I did contemplate just pulling off the ball and leaving everything else intact, but figured it would be hard to get the old seal out, and new seal in with a halfshaft in the way.

Anyway, this short story is getting longer by the word. I have used the newer type stake nut method for holding the assemble to the stub axle - and I had flattened it pretty well to the flat part of the stub axle as I understand you are supposed to.

It took quite a lot of effort to unwind the stake nut off the stub axle, and when I did I found this:

Click image to enlarge

One ruined stub axle thread.

So where did I go wrong? I would be surprised if its normal to have to replace the stub axle each time you remove the stake nut, although they are fairly cheap so I guess its possible.

I used the stake nut system because I liked being able to set the bearing tension with the spacers, and not worry about having set too much or too little tension by hand - it felt like a fit and forget mechanism. Plus I like the idea of the space adding a little bit of rigidity to the bearings inner edged. 2005 Td5 90 XS
1989 V8 110 CSW

29th May 2020 9:45am

Retroanaconda

Member Since: 04 Jan 2012
Location: Scotland
Posts: 2644

Did you un-stake it first?

29th May 2020 10:04am

Hufflepuff

Member Since: 25 Oct 2014
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 727

ah.. no. You can do that with the stake nut? I just unwound it with the big 52mm socket and a suitably long breaker bar. 2005 Td5 90 XS
1989 V8 110 CSW

29th May 2020 10:15am

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17373

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

You should always unstake the flat as much as you can before removing the nut, failure to do so will inevitably damage the stub axle as you have found. Even after unstaking, there is a risk that the thread will be damaged, which is another reason why the change to stake nuts was a retrograde step.

I firmly believe that the only reason for the change was to reduced the cost of manufacture by de-skilling the assembly process, there is no engineering benefit to the stake nut and spacer arrangement.

Converting to the old two-nut system will eliminate the thread damage risk, and is, in the long term, a more durable solution (unless you use Britpart hub nuts, which in my experience do exactly the same thing to the stub axle threads due to poor quality control)!

It is interesting to compare the original fully-floating hubs design, as introduced on the S1, with the final design on the last Defenders. The early one used larger bearings, a renewable wear-ring for the oil seal, two hubs nuts, and used a slotted stub axle for positive location of the thrust and lock washers.

By the final versions, that had been "value engineered" to delete the renewable wear ring, reduce the size of the bearings, change the slot to a flat (cheaper to make but much less satisfactory as a locator), and substitute the two nuts with a single, non-reusable stake nut. The whole philosophy behind these changes is that it should be as cheap to make as possible, and who cares about durability or serviceability because once it is sold it is the owner's problem, not the manufacturer's. If repairs cost more, even better, more money is taken from the customer. I know that this is the way of the world, and is a slightly cynical view, but it is s distasteful trend.

29th May 2020 10:47am

topless_matt

Member Since: 29 Mar 2015
Location: norfolk
Posts: 68

2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Tonga Green

If you use the nut and spacer system you don’t need to flatten it very much, one precise point punched down is enough, his will also save chewing the threads when you u do.
Best solution is the twin nuts and stake washer and that is what is on all four corners of all of my defenders no matter the age! Hold my beer and watch this!

29th May 2020 4:34pm

Hufflepuff

Member Since: 25 Oct 2014
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 727

Thanks for the replies gentlemen. I did flatten it pretty well I must admit, I didn't think it would be coming off again for a long time, and I didn't want it coming off before I wanted it coming off if you know what I mean

2005 Td5 90 XS
1989 V8 110 CSW

29th May 2020 5:20pm

htb2

Member Since: 02 Nov 2018
Location: Carmarthenshire
Posts: 529

Had one of the strake nuts come loose the other week, its well punched down now.

29th May 2020 8:08pm

V8GPC

Member Since: 18 Jul 2016
Location: Manchester
Posts: 289

when i did the hubs recently (two nut system) the work shop manual had the following method to set the preload on the bearings.

Step 1 is to ensure the bearings are located correctly, with original bearings and new grease and new hub seal, mine were both really smooth and felt right.

Step 2 they were still very smooth and again they felt right, so I was happy with the process, and that the preload was ok.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(1) Fit hub adjusting nut. Tighten to 50 Nm, 37 lbf ft. Ensure hub is free to rotate with no bearing play.

(2) Back off adjusting nut 90 deg and tighten to 10 Nm, 7 lbf ft . This will give the required hub end float of 0,010mm, 0.0004 in.

(3) Fit a new lock washer.

(4) Fit locknut. Tighten to 50 Nm, 37 lbf ft. Tab over lock washer to secure adjusting nut and locknut.

1st Jun 2020 6:05am

stark

Member Since: 09 Mar 2021
Location: UK
Posts: 18

What make / brand / source of the two-nut system are you guys using? Genuine Land Rover? As someone mentioned above not to use Britpart.

27th Oct 2021 6:27am

rallysteve

Member Since: 10 Feb 2014
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 2227

2002 Defender 110 Td5 DCPU Keswick Green

When i need to remove a staked nut I normally take a very sharp small flat ended chisel and use as parallel to possible to the channel/groove in the shaft. A few gentle hammer blows is normally enough to split the 'staked' section in the nut. Normally just splitting/cutting down one side of the staked bit is enough to weaken it so that it doesnt cause damage to the thread on removal. To be safe though I normally split each staked section on either side and use a small flat screwdriver or pick to bend the staked bit out.

Steve 02' 110 TD5 Double Cab Rebuild Thread

27th Oct 2021 12:55pm

landy andy

Member Since: 15 Feb 2009
Location: Ware, Herts
Posts: 5698

2006 Defender 110 Td5 USW Zermatt Silver

stark wrote:
What make / brand / source of the two-nut system are you guys using? Genuine Land Rover? As someone mentioned above not to use Britpart.

Gen LR stuff. But it isn’t cheap for what they are. Masses more than the copies, but very different quality to the copies. Hate stake nuts. Modern price crap.

27th Oct 2021 1:19pm

stark

Member Since: 09 Mar 2021
Location: UK
Posts: 18

Thanks Landy Andy!

Sorry to hi-jack the thread but is there a special spanner to hold the adjustment nut when you're putting on the lock tab washer and locking nut? I'm thinking access might be too tight for a standard 52mm open ended spanner?

Just trying to get everything together to hit the job once.

28th Oct 2021 2:15pm

landy andy

Member Since: 15 Feb 2009
Location: Ware, Herts
Posts: 5698

You don’t need to spanner’s as the washers stop the tightening. So you only need the 52mm box socket.

28th Oct 2021 9:51pm

stark

Member Since: 09 Mar 2021
Location: UK
Posts: 18

Ah right enough; just realised that is the case thanks 👍

4th Nov 2021 1:33pm

stark

Member Since: 09 Mar 2021
Location: UK
Posts: 18

Ah right enough; just realised that is the case thanks 👍

4th Nov 2021 1:36pm

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