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CharlieDonuts



Member Since: 16 Jun 2019
Location: Illiers Combray
Posts: 133

France 2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 SW Galway Green
How do I stop this bolt falling out ?

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I must have lost this bolt three times. Why does it keep falling out and how do I stop it ?
Post #829618 7th May 2020 8:21am
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bear100



Member Since: 22 Mar 2010
Location: South Wales
Posts: 1913

Wales 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Santorini Black
Have you used threadlock? i use the Rocol blue.

There are different strengths and will certainly help you, Cheap enough and stocked in Halfrauds]

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Post #829622 7th May 2020 8:33am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17307

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
You probably won't stop it falling out. The problem is that it screws into a blind hole tapped into the cast-iron exhaust manifold, which is (a) fragile and (b) subject to a huge range of temperatures. Given the different coefficients of thermal expansion between the CI manifold and the steel screw, it is almost inevitable that it will keep coming loose. Eventually you will find that repeated tightening and the general unsuitability of CI to hold a thread means that the thread in the manifold will fail, and then you either need a new manifold (the dealer solution) or you simply throw the setscrew away and bend the parts slightly to stop the rattle (the pragmatic approach).

I have been running without this screw for around 150k miles now, the intermittent rattle is the only downside.

I did investigate fitting a threaded insert (Helicoil or Timesert) to the manifold but the hole is ridiculously shallow and it really cannot be done without drilling through into an exhaust passage, which is probably not a good idea.

I doubt that there is a threadlocking compound that will withstand the heat of an exhaust manifold, although I would be happy to be proved wrong on this.

I have toyed with the idea of making a bracket that attaches somewhere else to support this (for example, the bolts/studs that hold the manifold to the head) but I've never actually got around to trying, it has never reached the top of the list of priorities.

It will be interesting to see if anyone else has found a solution to this idiotic piece of sloppy design.
Post #829623 7th May 2020 8:56am
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Joe the Plumber



Member Since: 18 Dec 2013
Location: Midlands
Posts: 907

2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 HT Fuji White
You could try a very slightly longer bolt with a spring washer under the head.
Post #829636 7th May 2020 9:36am
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Avelingporter



Member Since: 25 Jan 2016
Location: Southampton
Posts: 405

United Kingdom 2016 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Corris Grey
Use graphite powder mixed with a small amount of engine oil to form a paste. Use this as a thread lock. It’s what we use on steam engines. The oil burns off and the graphite sets hard.
Post #829656 7th May 2020 12:17pm
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CharlieDonuts



Member Since: 16 Jun 2019
Location: Illiers Combray
Posts: 133

France 2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 SW Galway Green
Thank you for the explanation Blackwolf and other forum members for their the interesting ideas. I was particularly taken by the Isambard Kingdom Brunel 'steam' solution but was a bit worried that I might not ever get the bolt out again. There is a gasket down there that I have had to change, that I need to change again now and no doubt will need to change in the future. I have tried the springy washer before and it fell out. So I am thinking that I might try this.

https://tdsna.henkel.com/americas/na/adhes...422-EN.pdf

If the High Temperature Loctite doesn't do it I'll give Isambard a whirl and if that doesn't work I'll go back to not caring Cool
Post #829931 8th May 2020 5:28pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17307

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
Unfortunately I can't follow that link (it requires a login), so can you say how high a temperature the high temperature Loctite is good to?

Working hard the exhaust manifold could exceed 400 degrees Celsius and it would be pretty impressive threadlock to cope with this.
Post #829939 8th May 2020 5:56pm
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MC84



Member Since: 22 May 2016
Location: Near Bristol
Posts: 345

United Kingdom 2001 Defender 90 Td5 HT Chawton White
Avelingporter wrote:
Use graphite powder mixed with a small amount of engine oil to form a paste. Use this as a thread lock. It’s what we use on steam engines. The oil burns off and the graphite sets hard.


Like it Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Mike

Hard Top 90 TD5 2001
Ford 100e 1959
www.youtube.com/mikemakesit
Post #829943 8th May 2020 6:17pm
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ickle



Member Since: 22 Jul 2010
Location: South Vendee
Posts: 1776

France 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Alpine White
Drill the head crossways and wire it aviation style?

Keith
Post #829946 8th May 2020 6:28pm
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CharlieDonuts



Member Since: 16 Jun 2019
Location: Illiers Combray
Posts: 133

France 2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 SW Galway Green
Loctite® 2422™ Ultra High Temperature Threadlocker Blue

https://www.henkel-adhesives.com/kr/en/pro..._2422.html

Here is the URL there is another link to a PDF

They have only tested it up to 350 C

Dunno what do think

Steam Engine Method ?
Post #829955 8th May 2020 7:06pm
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CharlieDonuts



Member Since: 16 Jun 2019
Location: Illiers Combray
Posts: 133

France 2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 SW Galway Green

Click image to enlarge



Maybe this ? Its not to hard to get to this bolt so I ought to be able to get it ought again with a breaker bar.
Post #830038 9th May 2020 9:23am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17307

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
That should certainly provide the heat performance you need, impressive!
Post #830054 9th May 2020 10:23am
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bear100



Member Since: 22 Mar 2010
Location: South Wales
Posts: 1913

Wales 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Santorini Black
Thread lock is the way! 2016 Range Rover Autobiography 4.4 TDV8
2010 110 XS Utility 2.4TDCI
2010 Range Rover Sport TDV8 (gone)
2007 Discovery HSE TDV6 (gone)
1993 110 csw 200 tdi (gone)
1994 90 HT 300 tdi (gone)
1994 discovery 300tdi (gone)
90 hybrid 3.5 v8 (gone)
Range rover bobtail 3.5 v8 (gone)
Post #830123 9th May 2020 5:05pm
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