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Shroppy

Member Since: 25 Feb 2016
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 866

1986 Defender 130 V8 Petrol HCPU Aintree Green

130 Axles - which way to go?

Spoke to Richard's earlier in the week and, the 130 chassis should be ready by the end of the month

I've had a metric sh*tload on with work/uni/life so haven't had chance to prep the axles like I'd planned

However, it's given me chance to consider if my intended route of a disc salisbury rear and standard front is the best bet....

Salisburys are bombproof, but might a wolf/late 110 rear axle be a better bet? I'll probably end up swapping the front axle internals out for Ashcroft shiny bits in time but will keep it stock for ease in the short term.

I'd be interested in thoughts for and against!

Cheers 1985 127 V8 Build Thread
Series 2 109"
Series 1 80"

7th Feb 2020 6:42pm

oneten110

Member Since: 02 Jul 2011
Location: Wish I was still in France
Posts: 741

Salisbury axles are not bomb proof. My lead footed first wife managed to break the differential in one. Then again she also broke a transfer box, a main gearbox and a rear halfshaft
The rear axle fitted to a WOLF was chosen because it proved stronger than the Salisbury when hit from the end (a friend was part of the WOLF development team)
The Rover front axle is weak and pretty much the only bit of it that is even vaguely worth keeping is the case, so long as it is reinforced. The internals are best when fitted to the inside of a skip, the CV joints are weak, the half shafts are made out of Philadelphia cheese and the differential is about as resilient as a slice of cucumber, even the 4 pin variety. It is possible to fit a Salisbury front axle but they are not cheap It is not a Defender, it is a One_Ten

7th Feb 2020 8:04pm

diesel_jim

Member Since: 13 Oct 2008
Location: hiding
Posts: 6093

I had a salisbury front on an old 110 I built a few years back,

The casing is huge, yes probably stronger than a normal rover axle (the CW&P certainly), but the CV's are normal AEU2522 or the later 300/Td5 type.

Halfshafts narrow down part way, so just as weak.... and made of unobtanium thesedays.

IMO I'd go for a pair of wolf military axles (well, the casings anyway), or normal ones and weld on braces (think crown diffs did them?) with ashcroft shiny innard bits

7th Feb 2020 8:14pm

Pilgrimmick

Member Since: 16 Nov 2015
Location: Highlands
Posts: 582

Disco 2 front axles are about the best of the bunch at reasonable prices. 80" 1948
Lightweight V8
Bowler Tomcat
130 Station wagon
90 300tdi
(Santana PS10 pick up)
Range Rover L322 (Ful fat)

7th Feb 2020 8:22pm

oneten110

Member Since: 02 Jul 2011
Location: Wish I was still in France
Posts: 741

If you want stronger half shafts and CV joints you could do a lot worse than this
http://www.tibus-offroad.com/en/products/accessories/land-rover/
Then you just have to find something to replace the cucumber spread otherwise known as a differential. It is not a Defender, it is a One_Ten

8th Feb 2020 8:32am

Shroppy

Member Since: 25 Feb 2016
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 866

Don't disco 2s have a completely different CV arrangement to defenders?

I'll have a look at the wolf axle option, I suppose I clicked go with Ashcroft internals if/when the stock ones break.

I agree re the salisbury front axle, a very heavy way of gaining not much in the way of strength... 1985 127 V8 Build Thread
Series 2 109"
Series 1 80"

8th Feb 2020 12:05pm

oneten110

Member Since: 02 Jul 2011
Location: Wish I was still in France
Posts: 741

Given that the Rover axle couldn't even cope with the output from a 2 1/4 petrol. The best place for it is at the bottom of a skip It is not a Defender, it is a One_Ten

8th Feb 2020 3:38pm

Pilgrimmick

Member Since: 16 Nov 2015
Location: Highlands
Posts: 582

How does a TD5 110 rear axle compare to a 130 Salisbury axle? 80" 1948
Lightweight V8
Bowler Tomcat
130 Station wagon
90 300tdi
(Santana PS10 pick up)
Range Rover L322 (Ful fat)

8th Feb 2020 9:32pm

sako243

Member Since: 08 Jul 2014
Location: Wales
Posts: 1223

1994 Defender 110 300 Tdi CSW Alpine White

Nothing is bomb proof - the cheapest option is learn to drive sensibly

. What are you intending on doing with the vehicle that you're so worried about breaking stuff?

OK most of my knowledge in this respect comes via the diff guru Nige Barker from Xcess4x4 corroborated by my own research. The main advantage a Salisbury has over a standard Rover diff setup is that the cross pin is f**** enormous when compared side by side, now my perspective was coming from putting lockers into the front and rear of my 110. With a Salisbury your only semi-practical option is an ARB locker which has some known design issues (plastic cages, seals wearing if not used regularly) and are becoming difficult to source. You've also then thrown away the main benefit the Salisbury has in the cross-pin.

So after looking at various bits in Nige's garage I opted for going P38/Wolf setup on the rear of my 110 (300Tdi so disc-braked Salisbury was standard) because it had the option of (in many people's opinion) a stronger locker option in the Ashlocker and was cheaper overall despite sourcing a donor axle.

If you're ever thinking of going locker in the rear then I, personally (and Nige), think that the short nose is a no-brainer. I don't know if he's done one since but I do have the first pegged short-nose Ashlocker in the rear of mine and it's done probably 60k since it was installed 4 or 5 years ago with no issues. At the time I also replaced the half-shafts and drive flanges with Ashcroft HD units (not the stupid 300M spec half-shafts though, just normal HD).

I think all of it is fairly moot if you drive sensibly. Note if you have lockers then you can be a lot smoother driving along since you're not having to rely on momentum so much when off-road. Ed
82 Hotspur Sandringham 6x6
95 Defender 110 300Tdi

8th Feb 2020 9:49pm

jst

Member Since: 14 Jan 2008
Location: Taunton
Posts: 8051

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Stornoway Grey

Ed's last para is worth remembering and bang on the money.

I am running p38 rear axle casing with Ashcroft hypoid low pinion rear locker. Probably the strongest diff you can get in p38 axle. Cheers

James
110 2012 XS Utility
130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper
90 2010 Hardtop
90 M57 1988 Hardtop

9th Feb 2020 11:59am

sako243

Member Since: 08 Jul 2014
Location: Wales
Posts: 1223

One other point is tyre size. Bigger you go the more you're likely to break things. I just run standard 32" tyres on mine.

I know Nige has always maintained that 35s are the largest that should ever be put on Land Rover axles although people do run bigger successfully, but e yre prepared to break things. Anything bigger puts a lot of torque on halfshafts etc. Again driving sensibly all of it is moot again. Ed
82 Hotspur Sandringham 6x6
95 Defender 110 300Tdi

9th Feb 2020 2:25pm

Shroppy

Member Since: 25 Feb 2016
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 866

Some great points there Ed, I completely agree smooth driving is the key point here.

I think, all things considered I'll probably stick with standard front axle and salisbury rear for the time being, I don't plan on running huge tyres or hammering it but as I've yet to start building it up I thought I might as well consider my options!

Thanks all 1985 127 V8 Build Thread
Series 2 109"
Series 1 80"

9th Feb 2020 5:35pm

big steve

Member Since: 24 Dec 2009
Location: hertfordshire
Posts: 2456

2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Montalcino Red

Wait until ashcroft release there new axle conversion for the rear with a big diff ready to bolt straight on 2015 2.2 tdci hardtop xs
3.2 conversion DONE 238bhp and 707nm torque and thats just the start ;-P
hybrid turbo in build -done ready to fit
ashcroft atb in transfer box
6 speed auto in build

9th Feb 2020 7:11pm

Shroppy

Member Since: 25 Feb 2016
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 866

Ok, so I've been doing some more reading/thinking. Dangerous, I know.

And I'm well and truly uncertain now

I want to keep the prop shafts standard, I don't really fancy playing about with custom ones etc.. The axles won't be abused, I'll use the 130 for towing infrequently, carrying heavyish loads and some green lining, nothing out of the ordinary really.

So as I see it, my options are as follows;

Option 1 - Salisbury and standard front - Locker expensive for salisbury and not the easiest to work on. Also weighs a metric f*** ton.

Option 2 - Puma/Wolf rear axle, standard front - I quite fancy the idea of running LSDs eventually so this option would make that possible/easier/cheaper.

Option 3 - Disco 2 axles, I know the front runs a different CV arrangement, my concern with this option is that they weren't specced for 3500kg of vehicle, and it's in a way 'non-standard' so if the worst were to happen then it could possibly cause headache in the event of a crash etc.

So option 2 looks the most logical, to go with this then I guess it's a case of finding some axes off a puma 110/130 and maybe using p38 diffs?

Am I right in thinking the wolf axles are just strengthened (casing) puma axle? 1985 127 V8 Build Thread
Series 2 109"
Series 1 80"

9th Feb 2020 8:19pm

diesel_jim

Member Since: 13 Oct 2008
Location: hiding
Posts: 6093

yes, wolf axles are just strengthened.

Join the wolf XD group on FB... a few chaps there break them so you should be able to pick up some casings.

9th Feb 2020 8:35pm

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