 | Home > Technical > Improving offroad manoeuvrability? |
 
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| rallysteve Member Since: 10 Feb 2014 Location: Cumbria Posts: 2237   
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Morning all,
I did my first and the V8's first RTV trial on Sunday. Came an unimpressive joint last  . Along with a few annoying mistakes by myself, the real Achilles heel of the vehicle seems to be a total lack of manoeuvrability in the mud.
The almost brand new Toyo MTs admittedly arnt the best tyre for the conditions as they clog up almost immediately but i would expect better lateral traction from them. The vehicle had a real tendency to just push on forward all the time. I tried both with and without CDL engaged with little difference. This resulted in under steering most of the time and clipping/missing gates. I have not experienced this to this degree with other 90s running General SAG tyres or on 109s or 110s running BFG KM1s or KM2s. I don't know if it is a factor of the vehicle/tyres or both. This was pronounced even at the lowest sustainable rpm in Low 1st so not merely a speed issue. On road handling and tyre wear seems fine. The main issue though was the total lack of steering lock, i adjusted the lock stops sp that the tyres have about 5mm of clearance from the radius arms. I think a big difference can be had by fitting spacer to move the Wolf wheels and 255/85 tyres out so that the lock stops can be wound in a bit.  Click image to enlarge Cheers, Steve 02' 110 TD5 Double Cab Rebuild Thread |
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6th Jan 2020 9:38am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17463 
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Fiddle brakes on rear.
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6th Jan 2020 9:57am |
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| rallysteve Member Since: 10 Feb 2014 Location: Cumbria Posts: 2237
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That was the original plan, not allowed in the RTV regulations though
Cheers Steve 02' 110 TD5 Double Cab Rebuild Thread |
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6th Jan 2020 9:58am |
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| rallysteve Member Since: 10 Feb 2014 Location: Cumbria Posts: 2237
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Excellent, a very reasonable point. Will give that a go!
In a very crude way; I guess the inner tyre being forced against the radius arm on full lock actually will result in more power to the outer wheel with an open diff and may actually help the vehicle rotate a little better! Cheers, Steve 02' 110 TD5 Double Cab Rebuild Thread |
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6th Jan 2020 10:55am |
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| diesel_jim Member Since: 13 Oct 2008 Location: hiding Posts: 6102 
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What were the tyre pressures at? You need to let them down quite a bit to get purchase in claggy mud.
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6th Jan 2020 6:40pm |
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| CarMan Member Since: 29 Nov 2010 Location: Cotswolds Posts: 1865
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Interesting, I think it's the 255's on Wolfs. Turning circle great with 235's and much as I love Wolfs (ET20?) maybe think about wider offset wheels e.g. ET10 or even ET0 with no spacers
I think 20 or maybe 22psi is the minimum but check. Btw great looking truck and don't be demoralised  Rob
1993 200tdi 90 hard-top 1998 300tdi 90 soft-top 2016 2.2 XS 90 hard-top (sold) |
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6th Jan 2020 6:50pm |
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| Mdm Member Since: 11 Sep 2013 Location: Sunny Lancashire Posts: 1628
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i would adjust the lock stops until the tyres just rub on the radius arms .if you remove the bolts you can stress the cv under load at full lock. then they break.
255 are what i run on my 90 but for trailing 235 or a narrower tire will help as will lower pressures. 90 is looking well . |
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6th Jan 2020 7:03pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17463
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Remember though that it will fail an MOT (and for that matter a VOSA roadside roadworthiness check) if the tyres actually touch the radius arms. I usually adjust mine for the MOT and have been know to unadjust them afterwards.
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6th Jan 2020 7:13pm |
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| grafty99 Member Since: 15 Aug 2012 Location: North Devon Posts: 4787 
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I adjusted my lock stops so that I have literally about 2mm of clearance. The steering lock isn't too bad
2002 90 Td5 Station Wagon
1990 Vogue SE Triumph Tiger Explorer 1200 Td5 90 Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic50767.html Tdi 110 Thread https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic69562.html RRC Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic54492.html Instagram http://www.instagram.com/george_grafton |
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6th Jan 2020 7:23pm |
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| markb110 Member Since: 22 May 2010 Location: Guildford Posts: 2644  
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Hi Steve
A couple of the guys in the club run larger offset wheels on the front only to get the better turning radius. Spacers I believe are not allowed. When I did my first British Army Navigation event after 10 plus years of marshalling we came last by such a large margin I think that they had to add an extra plain page between us and the second to last team 
Keep going and you will do well, remember fun first (and lots of mickey taking)….. |
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6th Jan 2020 7:33pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20472
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I think I've got about 20mm (I can't remember exactly.) clearance on mine with the 255/85's. no spacers.
The turning lock doesn't concern me, although I'm not using it for competitive reasons etc. I believe if you have it set too close it's a tell tale sign to the MOT tester to look for rubbing / scuff marks. From there, they will if that's been spotted actually take a look on full lock just how close the clearance is. Tyre pressure will affect clearance too, lower pressure will mean it'll be closer, and higher more clearance. No Guts, No Glory. 🇬🇧🏴🏴🏴🇮🇪🇺🇸⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪 |
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6th Jan 2020 7:39pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8084  
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All mine rub radius arms on full lock , I just back off the steering as required.
Wolf wheels offer great protection for the caliper and give a narrow track. Mach5s will increase lock dramatically especially when combined with adjusting lock stops to just off radius arms and compared to your wolfs. You'll get more scrub steer and vehicle will be wider which can be a pain on narrow gates. Cheers James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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6th Jan 2020 8:05pm |
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| diduan Member Since: 13 Oct 2016 Location: Central Balkan Posts: 260 
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Normal mud tires clog up qiuckly in clay type mud and you can't steer any more. Using more wheel spin can help or just get some aggressive mud tires like Silverstone mt117. Defender 110 SW MY2011 2.4tdci decat, no EGR
Jeep Wrangler YJ 1990 4.0. Front 78' Dana 60, Rear CUCV 14 bolt |
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6th Jan 2020 8:11pm |
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| CarMan Member Since: 29 Nov 2010 Location: Cotswolds Posts: 1865
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Think most of our club use 235 Insa Turbo Special Track
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6th Jan 2020 8:18pm |
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