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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018   
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That's all quite damning stuff. 
It begs the question as to whether any diesel, and small diesels in particular, are really suitable for many drivers once you apply Euro 6 requirements. |
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7th Jan 2020 9:09am |
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| Zed Member Since: 07 Oct 2017 Location: In the woods Posts: 3259 
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This was in LRM a couple of months back.  Click image to enlarge WARNING. This post may contain sarcasm. |
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7th Jan 2020 11:03am |
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| Tim in Scotland Member Since: 23 May 2007 Location: The Land that time forgot Posts: 3753 
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Thus is one of the main credibility issues that JLR has - lots of owners report issues, JLR buries it’s corporate head in the sand and then claims its the owner’s fault for not driving the car properly. SDv6 crank issue was the same, ICTP issues the same. They seem to hope that making ‘ Good will” payments to a few customers will solve the issue for everyone when actually all it gets them is a heap of bad publicity for being unsympathetic and a reputation for unreliability. One reason why after almost 30 years of buying a new JLR product every 2-3 years I didn’t replace my 2015 RRS with another Land Rover in 2018. Seems to me that they have become a company ruled by bean-counters and litigation avoidance experts now. Seems like they are scared stiff of honesty, “hey folks we messed up here, we are sorry and will cover all the costs to put your very expensive car right”. I wonder if a few more customers were to involve the leasing or finance companies that they use to buy the cars more when there are serious problems like design faults that those companies would refuse to finance JLR products.......... certainly a few years back I involved the finance company who provided my PCP when I had issues with a new Evoque JLR moved very very quickly to fix all my issues but when I read on RRSport, BabyRR and DiscoSport forums of the issues some people have it seems few people involve the company that has actually purchased the car that they are basically renting. Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come
2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed! Last edited by Tim in Scotland on 7th Jan 2020 4:33pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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7th Jan 2020 12:12pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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Some very interesting links there.
I found one with some tech links here: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic....;t=1833015 Most shocking is the fact JLR used SOTA update to change to service message appearing at 10% dilution despite "The possibility of mechanical failure highlighted by JLR will rise: we can predict 66% more engine failures due to 10% dilution."  |
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7th Jan 2020 1:34pm |
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| Naks Member Since: 27 Jan 2009 Location: Stellenbosch, ZA Posts: 2638  
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considering the appalling reliability of the Ingenium engines, I am somewhat reluctant to fight SWAMBO on this...
the petrol engine is just too thirsty, so what now?  --
2010 Defender Puma 90 + BAS remap + Alive IC + Slickshift + Ashcroft ATB rear 2015 Range Rover Sport V8 Supercharged
Defender Puma Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zZ1en9 Discovery 4 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zXrtKO Range Rover/Sport L320/L322/L494 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zc58JQ |
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7th Jan 2020 1:35pm |
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| Devon-Rover Member Since: 22 Jan 2015 Location: South Devon Posts: 914 
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Soo I read out of this that JLR are playing a very risky game of ostrich (head in sand) due to the design layout of the exhaust - DPF - SCR something that has blighted other car manufactures earlier on and lesson have not been learnt.
Peugeot with it's early HDI engines used to like blocking up DPF's so PSA used an Eloys fluid to catalyse the soot in the DPF to burn it off and help keep post injection down. The 1.6 HDI was famed for dilution in the oil and it would kill turbo's for a hobby. the dilution with small oilways / higher blowby / wrong oil's / drive cycle less than idea. Even then owners reported 10k oil changes were not enough to stop the sludge building up on some it is an engine to avoid. VW again with the long distance again to the DPF means that regeneration is a long process as it's got a long way to heat up. I'm forever telling customers that 5 miles to town and back isn't a good thing to do, and they need to get onto the bigger A roads at least once a month and 'clean the cobwebs out' coupled with a bottle of Forte and a prayer. Our 'old' defender is blessed with a close coupled DPF and that is something that I knew going into ownership was something that is proof against the naysayers who decried the 2.2 because of it having a DPF. The whole DPF's are bad are really only a thing as many manufacturers believe that they can use them remotely and have no issues with a stop start driving cycle. Something which I still don't think is tackled head on at the dealership on the sales desk. "Yes sir you can put your order in but this engine around town is gonna require a very short service regime" "I suggest the petrol as what you loose in MPG you gain in longer service routine" I'd be interested to know how much knowhow is on the sales floor to give the customer the facts of life when it comes to city driving and using a engine not capable of performing as such. Now the question is will the new defender be like the Velar with a close coupled DPF or a remote one? Also can be found on Fb, Ytube, Insta & Twitter @4WDSouthwest |
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7th Jan 2020 2:30pm |
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| milesr3 Member Since: 12 Feb 2013 Location: Suffolk Posts: 873 
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Some shocking information there, ultimately questioning the integrity of the type approval process for the D8 architecture. Million dollar question: does the new Defender have a close coupled DPF? |
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7th Jan 2020 3:54pm |
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| Tim in Scotland Member Since: 23 May 2007 Location: The Land that time forgot Posts: 3753
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Don’t forget that all new petrol engined vehicles delivered in the EU since July 2018 have also needed to have a petrol particulate filter - we don’t seem to hear of problems with them yet. Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come
2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed! |
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7th Jan 2020 4:38pm |
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| lohr500 Member Since: 14 Sep 2014 Location: Skipton Posts: 1315
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On the topic of pollution, has anyone heard or seen any information on how much c**p was spewed across the centre of London on New Year's Eve from the firework display?
From the TV coverage it looked like a massive cloud of smog developed downwind of the display, blocking out most of the view for all those on the other side of the river. When you think how dense, acrid and sulphurous the smoke is from just a few garden fireworks, the estimated £3M show in London must have had a significant impact on the air quality and emissions. I would love to know what the equivalent vehicle usage in the LEZ zone would be to match the pollution from the display!! |
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7th Jan 2020 5:57pm |
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| dorsetsmith Member Since: 30 Oct 2011 Location: South West Posts: 4554 |
petrol engine exhausts run a lot hotter and can bun off particulate in the filter |
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7th Jan 2020 6:03pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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"Approximately 0.029 tonnes of nitrogen oxide (NOx) were emitted by the official New Year's Eve fireworks display. This is roughly equivalent to 0.00006% of London's annual NOx emissions. We have not been able to estimate the PM2.5 emissions from the fireworks. However, we anticipate that most of particles emitted would have been water soluble which, given the display takes places next to the Thames and weather conditions were relatively damp, would have reduced their impact on ambient pollution concentrations." https://www.london.gov.uk/questions/2017/0347 |
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7th Jan 2020 6:13pm |
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| lohr500 Member Since: 14 Sep 2014 Location: Skipton Posts: 1315
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Thanks Supacat.
Not much in the way of NOx then. I bet the sulphur and soot particle count was horrendous though. |
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7th Jan 2020 6:35pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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I was going to do the mileage equivalent at EU6 levels but ran out of time...
226,562.5 miles for diesel cars... In the first 6 months they estimated they had reduced NOx by 31% or 200 tonnes. |
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7th Jan 2020 7:10pm |
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| Zed Member Since: 07 Oct 2017 Location: In the woods Posts: 3259
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That sounds very impressive. WARNING.
This post may contain sarcasm. |
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7th Jan 2020 7:14pm |
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