 | Home > Technical > Which diff and halfshafts in a 2009 110 rear axle? |
 
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| donmacn Member Since: 06 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1841  
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Morning all,
I've been tying myself in internet-knots trying to figure out which diff and halfshafts I might need to fettle or replace as part of an overall refurb. Now I've finally managed to track down the details of the 'new take-off' rear axle I had fitted about 10 years ago. It was a 2009 job, which I think is 'Puma' territory. Does this mean it will have a Rover or 'P38' rear diff? And, does this mean that the 'one piece' rear halfshafts as sold by Britpart and others would be the correct specc? Finally, no idea/memory why, but the invoice says I also got a 'Wolf' rear propshaft. Presumably I needed that to bridge the gap between the 300Tdi engine/gearbox and the different diff? As always, extremely grateful for any wise and experienced responses..! Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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13th Mar 2019 8:46am |
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| donmacn Member Since: 06 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1841
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 Perfect, thanks. Couldn't ask for more.
The axle will still be in factory spec, definitely. Nothing's been done or amended since it was fitted. I was (and still am) toying with the idea of replacing the diff with an Ashcroft ATB version. Now that I know for sure what's in my current axle, I'll have to revisit that and see if it still makes sense. I know it wouldn't be a 'bad' thing - it's just whether it's really or justifiably needed for my use of the car. If the P38 diff was OK for military use in the Wolf, it's hard to see that it wouldn't cope with anything I could throw at it. Also good to have some better idea of suitable propshafts. As you've explained it though, I can see why a wolf one was supplied: Tdi engine/P38 diff. Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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13th Mar 2019 9:53am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17364  
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An Ashcroft ATB in the rear makes perfect sense from a traction point of view, but isn't really necessary in the 4-gear P38 diff for strength since it is quite a strong diff anyway.
The weak point of the P38 diff is a result of the very short pinion shaft which results in the pinion bearings being very close together and hence highly stressed, and fitting an ATB doesn't alter this. If you want a extra-strong rear axle I would either fit an Ashcroft long-nose upgrade (if they're still available) or modify the axle case to take a Rover patter diff with an ATB. In either case you'd need a custom propshaft, unfortunately. |
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13th Mar 2019 11:38am |
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| Retroanaconda Member Since: 04 Jan 2012 Location: Scotland Posts: 2640 
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Gearbox position, and therefore propshaft length, is the same on 300Tdi, Td5, V8 and Tdci. The 300Tdi uses a different crossmember mounting system but the position of the box is the same.
200Tdi and earlier 4-cylinder engines used a different position, about 2" further rearward. |
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13th Mar 2019 12:47pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17364
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^^ Useful info, thanks.
Remember though that the propshaft length will vary according to whether a Rover, Salisbury, or P38 diff is fitted on a 110 or 130. |
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13th Mar 2019 1:45pm |
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| donmacn Member Since: 06 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1841
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Thanks again both. Seeing as I've got your attention...
When I got this replacement axle I remember the guy saying something about the newer axles having a newer bearing system, and that when it came time to replace them, I'd be better going back to the 'older' system...? Something about spacers...? Does that ring any bells? I've had a look at LR cat for a newer axle, and the parts list seems more or less as I'd expect it to be - I'm not seeing any obvious differences? Ta Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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13th Mar 2019 10:20pm |
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| Retroanaconda Member Since: 04 Jan 2012 Location: Scotland Posts: 2640
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Rear prop length varies for the later 110 axle yes, apologies.
He was talking about wheel bearings. Td5 and on axles use a selective spacer between the two opposing bearings in the hub and a single hub nut torqued to a very high figure. Older axles had a traditional nut and thrust washer to set the pre-load and a second one to lock it, with a tab washer inbetween. While the newer setup no doubt has some benefit in terms of speed of manufacture or the like it is, in my opinion, less suited to home maintenance than the old system. However both will work fine and, so long as seals are not compromised, wheel bearings rarely give problems on Defenders. I changed the front ones on mine as one of the first jobs when I bought it and they’re still going strong over 200k later. |
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13th Mar 2019 10:28pm |
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| donmacn Member Since: 06 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1841
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Thanks Retro,
So, are the different bearing systems easily interchangeable? What I mean is, do you think can you simply remove the new type bearings, and replace with the old style, using the same hub/stub axle? Or would more altered parts be needed? Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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13th Mar 2019 10:53pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17364
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The bearings are identical on either system
With the 'new' system you have 2 bearings, a spacer, a thrust washer, and a (non-reusable) stake nut. On the 'old' system there is no spacer and the stake nut is replaced by two plain nuts and a tab washer. In almost every respect the old system (used since 1947) is superior. |
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13th Mar 2019 10:58pm |
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| donmacn Member Since: 06 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1841
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Thanks BW,
I've done the older system before on the LR; and it's not a million miles away from standard trailer bearings, where you preload and then ease off and pin the castellated nut. But I've never even seen the new one. As the bearings are the same, that makes life much easier. I'll get a set ordered and then gauge whether I need to replace them now, or at some point in future. Thanks again Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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13th Mar 2019 11:15pm |
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