 | Home > Maintenance & Modifications > 300tdi fuel pump - looking for options |
 
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| donmacn Member Since: 06 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1845  
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Did a quick search, didn't find anything relevant at first glance.
I'm probably going to get my engine out/rebuilt. Nothing much wrong with it as far as I can see, just a peace of mind thing before committing to some longer overseas trips. While it's out, the question arises what to do with the fuel pump. As with the engine, I don't think there's anything wrong with it, just old/decent mileage. 24 years old, approaching 230k miles. What are the options here? I don't know anything much about it, apart from general principles. Given what I'm doing to the engine, I think it's maybe a false economy to scrimp on the pump, but as I say, not seeing much discussion on fuel pumps here apart from all the 'tweaking' threads. New prices seem to vary wildly, even for Bosch pumps. Anything from £800 to £2k for Genuine. But I'm assuming that 'genuine' in this context doesn't mean very much given it's a Bosch unit anyway? Thanks as usual. Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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8th Mar 2019 8:35am |
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| L110CDL Member Since: 31 Oct 2015 Location: Devon Posts: 10784 
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I had issue's with my pump ( in Millie's thread ) had reconditioned one, that was
 so sent it back, but just before i sent it back, i got my old /original pump overhauled / looked at, all mended and going strong, saved a lot money and the bosch replacement went back, all good so far  The pump was done at Diesel Electrics  1996 Golf Blue 300Tdi 110 Pick up.
Keeper. Clayton. |
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8th Mar 2019 8:29pm |
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| donmacn Member Since: 06 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1845
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Thanks guys
I've had a look at the Diesel Bob site - but I can't tell which of the Bosch overhaul prices he lists refers to the 300tdi pump. Looks to be about £515 + VAT though. I'll have a look at the Diesel Electric site. Craddocks are doing a new Bosch pump for £580 + VAT, but I wonder if 'old Bosch' was good and 'new Bosch' is made of chocolate? I'm not saying it is, just posing the question in case anyone more experienced than I am (which wouldn't be difficult) has a view? Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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8th Mar 2019 8:39pm |
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| Dieseljock Member Since: 03 Jun 2017 Location: Inverclyde Posts: 31  
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I see you are In the North of Scotland, we use Patterson Diesels in cowdenbeath for some of our pump/injector overhauls. There’s various places down south we use but that’s mainly for newer common rail stuff on the more modern tractors and machinery.
http://www.pattersondiesel.com/ |
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8th Mar 2019 10:01pm |
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| jocklandjohn Member Since: 16 Sep 2016 Location: Highlands Posts: 62 
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You can have the pump 'tuned' as well as overhauled. I was put in touch with a firm in Devon by a lad I met when I was working down there and had a word with them about having my pump overhauled. They were very communicative and helpful, did it in next to no time, pump came back with removed bits and some inner work done - not sure what precisely (and they keep it as a trade secret) but assuming its something akin to gas-flowing a head. Whatever - it works great and runs smooth as silk. I queried what they do and its longevity before going ahead and they replied thus:
1) We have not experienced any durability or reliability problems with the modified pump, other than when inferior fuel is used. 2) Based on the engine mods you have stated, we can decide on the approximate required pump output. This was established many years ago with the use of rolling road and emission testing on both Tdi 200 & 300. Some minor adjustments can be made on the engine on completion, however, this has been very rarely necessary. 3) I would recommend a full strip down and inspection to hopefully eliminate any reoccurring problems. We would then be in a position to give you a firm price. Regards John Electro-Diesel (RCJ) Ltd. Tel: 01392 208090 ext2 Fax: 01392 208091 Cost ended up being £390 & VAT for the full overhaul and internal tweak. Very happy with the final result. (200tdi) They've apparently got three levels of modification depending on your needs. I was in the middle range, with a modest tweak. I found an online comment about them too in a Land Rover forum : "update on the 300 tdi exhaust gas temp issue.... Finally found the time to take the fuel injection pump to a specialist...... Dropped it off to John at electro diesel in Exeter who seemed to know what he was talking about as he had tuned a number of this type of pump for the 300 tdi..... After a week or so went back and picked up the reworked pump with along with a bag of old bits... installed the pump the next weekend and took her for a blast up the main road... To say the vehicle has been transformed is an understatement.. beautiful smooth power, more torque, no smoke, at full load the exhaust gas has dropped by over 100 degrees... she cruises on the motorway with no problem in the fast lane and the exhaust gas temp never rises over 400 degrees... The pump has transformed the vehicle... I was so impressed I have just dropped off the pump for my off roader and eagerly await its return.” |
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11th Mar 2019 9:12pm |
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| donmacn Member Since: 06 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1845
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Thanks John - I'll need to come down the hill and give it a spin!!
I noticed while investigating Diesel Bob's site that he also offers a 'tuning' option, so whether I go with him or Electro-Diesel, it's something I'll look at. When did you have that done, and have you had any issues with longevity? Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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11th Mar 2019 10:32pm |
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| jocklandjohn Member Since: 16 Sep 2016 Location: Highlands Posts: 62
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It was done end of 2017 and no problem wiith injection pump at all - I've had to increase boost pressure a tad to accomodate the increased fueling, which I've been doing incrementally and seeing how it runs. Its got a hybrid turbo which has been on for a long time but I'm not pushing its limits - I'm a fairly sedate driver and cruising along at 55 is quiet and smooth.
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11th Mar 2019 11:25pm |
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| jocklandjohn Member Since: 16 Sep 2016 Location: Highlands Posts: 62
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Just to add (but emphatically NOT knocking Diesel Bob) that not all ''pump tuning" is the same.
You can do a bit yourself - break fuel screw seal and increase the overall fuel flow, rotate the fuel pin (so-called 'boost pin') or even swap it out for another one, rotate the lower white plastic ratchet in the pump body (reduces throttle travel/increases speed of fuel delivery afaik) and various other 'tweaks' designed to alter the fuel delivery characteristics. Electro do little of that as far as I'm aware from speaking with them, rather they alter internal fuel flow via some modifications to various of the parts by a known (from experience & testing) amount. This is quite important because the other mods I mentioned can certainly alter the power characteristics of the vehicle but they do it at various points in the fuel delivery rather than evenly across the board. ED wanted to know all the mods to my engine, whether bigger intercooler was fitted, what type of turbo, what head, current EGT temps and boost pressure etc whether gearing has been altered on the vehicle (eg Disco or Defender gears) and its normal running load/weight then they factored that into the pump changes they undertook. None of this is voodoo, simply getting fuel delivery matched to the vehicle as best they can. If you look at any of the online videos of defender pump alterations a lot of them have big power and quite often lots of black smoke - which is also high EGT's and valve punishment. My aim was more modest and with a priority for engine longevity - my vehicle is currently at 300,000 miles with 200,000 of them on this 200tdi engine. The ideal would have been to take the vehicle to them but they're a long way down south so I opted for courier and took it from there. Just to underline the precision of all of this stuff - I had a major problem with the pump previously - seems the fuel delivery pin, the one that comes out horizontally in the pump and interfaces with the 'boost pin' had jammed. I've heard of other similar aged pumps doing the same and it might be a fuel quality issue (low sulphur diesel not lubricating internals) but it created havoc with the fuel delivery response as instead of fuel delivery altering via boost pressure it stayed the same which meant fuel delivery profile was screwed and it was under-delivering fuel at low speed (no power) and over-delivering at high speed (so much smoke it was like the helicopter scene in Apocalypse Now!). These pumps are good and reliable but my foray into sorting all this out has convinced me that its worth using the services of an expert rather than just any old 'tuner' so well worth your time deciding on a company, getting the engineer on the phone and talking through what you have, what you need and what they can offer you before making any decision. |
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12th Mar 2019 8:12am |
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| donmacn Member Since: 06 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1845
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Hi John, Thanks for taking the time to do such a detailed post - it's definitely appreciated. I've still got several weeks before I need to do anything so plenty research time left. Donald
1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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12th Mar 2019 6:23pm |
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