 | Home > Technical > 2.2 to 300Tdi conversion |
 
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| BogMonster Member Since: 05 Feb 2008 Location: Stanley Posts: 403   
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This might turn into a short thread as I am guessing in Europe/UK there is probably no way you could do this and have a road legal vehicle, but has anybody retro-fitted a 300Tdi/R380 into a Puma-era vehicle? As in, actually done it or had it done, rather than thought about it.
Reasons? Simple enough really. I love the Puma for road use, but that isn't why I have a Defender. I don't like it around town but I really don't like it off-road where I think it's inferior to the 300 in almost every way, even having modified it so I can switch both high and low throttle mapping in both high and low range (which has fixed some of the issues). We have three 110s, wife and I both have late model 300Tdi vehicles, and there is the much newer Puma. Her old 300 has been in daily use since 2005 and is getting pretty tired in lots of respects and either needs some significant money spent on it or to be moved on. So, my line of thought is to fit a 300 to the Puma, sell the older one, and end up with what we want - two newish 300-engined vehicles. My own 300 is a rarity - owned from new, always garaged, not used as a daily and as a result has only 38,000 miles on it. I have no doubt it's feasible (getting some of the electrics sort out so the instruments work is probably the trickiest bit) - I just wondered if anybody has a shortlist of the issues/solutions - e.g. is the transfer box in the same place (not sure), do the engine mounts need changing (almost certainly), which bits of the wiring harness are the same/which are different and so on. It wouldn't be a cheap job - I'd aim to get a remanufactured 300Tdi engine from Turners or the like, new rad/intercooler, best R380 I could find and do it properly, with the aim being to create the vehicle I'd like to have been able to buy from the factory - a 300Tdi engined, Puma-interior Defender 110 USW, that will be good for the next 15/20 years, by which time I won't care! I reckon most of the parts should be available off the shelf for the mechanical fit (header tank, hoses, acc cable, fuel pipes etc), not so sure about which bits of the electrics changed from 07 onwards but some time with head buried in parts manuals might work some of it out. Because of my location I'd need to have most of the stuff here before the job started otherwise it would take forever. Thoughts please? --- 2006 Defender 110 SW 300Tdi • 2011 Ford Ranger XLT crewcab • 2015 Defender 110 Station Wagon Utility TDCi |
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16th Oct 2020 8:56am |
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| Martin Site Admin Member Since: 02 Apr 2007 Location: Hook Norton Posts: 6633  
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*Promo alert*
The trickiest bit is easy if you buy our controller and looms 
https://www.fnltd.co.uk/shop/puma-system-controller-p114.html I've had a number of customers build what are in effect Pumas with 300 Tdi engines - where a 300 Tdi has been rebuilt with with a Puma bulkhead and wiring loom. So in effect the opposite way of what you propose but with the same result 
I can do a new build engine loom, or an adapter to the original engine loom. This photo shows a controller and the loom kit for a 300 Tdi, converting from a 2.4 to the original engine loom.  Click image to enlarge This one is the loom parts for a new build 300 Tdi loom (on the left), again to a 2.4. Click image to enlarge Going from a 2.2 has different connectors but we can do this, no problem. You can get adapters to fit the 300 Tdi to the MT82 6 speed box, would you not go this way rather than R380? With the R380 you would have the gear stick issue to resolve, as they want to come up right under the centre part of the dash (the heater box) with a Puma interior. 1988 90 Td5 NAS soft top
2015 D90 XS SWLast edited by Martin on 16th Oct 2020 2:03pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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16th Oct 2020 9:27am |
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| BogMonster Member Since: 05 Feb 2008 Location: Stanley Posts: 403
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Aha - thanks - very interesting
Think there may be a couple of photos missing from your post? Hadn't thought of the gearstick issue but that's a good one. Wondering if there is a solution with a Discovery box but that may be much too far back and end up with the lever in the cubby box somewhere. I'm a bit wary of keeping the MT82, because that's part of the problem (hateful gearchange on almost every one I have ever driven and mine unfortunately isn't one of the better ones) - but the chances are it will react differently with a different engine. I've always thought that the problem was probably the installation and a combination of driveline backlash and rev decay, rather than a problem with the box itself. If you put a 300 onto the MT82 does it fit easily enough in the engine bay or are there any clearance issues e.g. at the bulkhead or to the axle? What clutch do they use fitting an MT82 to a 300Tdi? --- 2006 Defender 110 SW 300Tdi • 2011 Ford Ranger XLT crewcab • 2015 Defender 110 Station Wagon Utility TDCi |
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16th Oct 2020 9:48am |
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| Martin Site Admin Member Since: 02 Apr 2007 Location: Hook Norton Posts: 6633
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Photos added
 1988 90 Td5 NAS soft top
2015 D90 XS SW |
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16th Oct 2020 2:03pm |
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| shaggydog Member Since: 12 Aug 2012 Location: Kent Posts: 3347 
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What a fantastic kit!
I wonder how much better the MPG would be for a 300tdi conversion with a 6 speed box vs a standard tdci. I wonder how many are out there Running Restoration Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/post323197.html#323197
Self confessed mileage hunter  |
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16th Oct 2020 2:22pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17544 
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Wasn't there a dodgy firm in or near Maidenhead that was doing this sort of thing all the time to enable them to sell Pumas in the USA?
Actually as I recall that was a little different since I don't think they changed anything except the VIN.  |
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16th Oct 2020 2:58pm |
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| llessur Member Since: 15 Nov 2011 Location: Hereford Posts: 151
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You can get a kit to fit a 300tdi straight up to the MT82 gearbox in the Puma
https://www.mdengineering.co.uk/shop/adapt...2-gearbox/ been tempted by this myself |
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16th Oct 2020 3:28pm |
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| LR90XS2011 Member Since: 05 Apr 2011 Location: bickenhill Posts: 3650 
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Quote
"I'm a bit wary of keeping the MT82, because that's part of the problem (hateful gearchange on almost every one I have ever driven and mine unfortunately isn't one of the better ones) - but the chances are it will react differently with a different engine. I've always thought that the problem was probably the installation and a combination of driveline backlash and rev decay, rather than a problem with the box itself" I wasnt impressed by my gearchange (from first to second) when the car was new, but now its great, nothing changed other than the oil and removing backlash in the system, it might be worth speaking to other MT82 owners with 300tdis to see what their experience is as the engine wont have all the rev hang rubbish DEFENDER 90 TDCI XS, I hope everyone is well and your land rovers make you happy |
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16th Oct 2020 4:16pm |
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| sako243 Member Since: 08 Jul 2014 Location: Wales Posts: 1231  
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If you wanted to stick with the R380 then perhaps an option is to use the Disco top housing which would normally come up further back. Not the ideal perhaps but perhaps an easier solution than the Defender one.
I've been running for about a decade a 1.2 transfer box in my 300Tdi and love the effect it's had on cruising speed (perhaps not an issue in the Falklands) but 1st is quite tall. Incidentally with the MT82 Land Rover basically did what everyone was doing with the 1.2 transfer box (i.e. they fitted a 1.2 transfer box but also added a lower first to compensate for the tall 1st in the R380). I have a cunning plan to solve the tall first issue though, a 265hp* V8 that revs to 7k and possibly drop back to a 1.4 transfer ratio
* - only in stock form and with cats in place, bottom end is supposedly good for circa 1000hp before needing any substantial modifications Ed 82 Hotspur Sandringham 6x6 95 Defender 110 300Tdi |
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16th Oct 2020 7:37pm |
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| Will@LRW Member Since: 04 May 2019 Location: UK Posts: 191 
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I've seen a few done by using the existing transfer box position, an R380 and adding the engine mounts. The engine sits backwards more so the pipes/viscous fan need to be extended as per retrofits of 300Tdis into 80's era vehicles. It looks a bit bodge-tastic; I think i'd prefer to move the transfer box forward to the original position, although keeping the same position will help with the gearstick-to-dasboard position a bit and you can keep the same props. Some people have used the Td5/ROW instruments on the Puma dash instead of making it work with the Puma instruments.
(it reminds me I need to finish a video I started about this conversion ) LR Workshop
Find a Defender's history and spec: https://defender.lrworkshop.com |
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17th Oct 2020 12:39pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8152 
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I would try the mt85 on 300tdi and a 1.2 box should do what you need I think the conversion with martins wiring option will be easier than you think.
Consider 2.8tgv? Cheers James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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17th Oct 2020 1:00pm |
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| BogMonster Member Since: 05 Feb 2008 Location: Stanley Posts: 403
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Thanks all, some food for thought. I don't want something "bodgetastic" (excellent expression, usually involves Scotchloks...) so being able to do the wiring properly would be great
The MT82 ratios would really suit a 300Tdi here, on 33" tyres (as all are here) I find the standard R380 ratios are a bit too tall for 5th to be ideal especially loaded up, I think 5th on the MT82 is slightly lower overall and then just forget about 6th - as I do in the Puma. Interesting ... all very interesting indeed and food for thought. Thanks ---
2006 Defender 110 SW 300Tdi • 2011 Ford Ranger XLT crewcab • 2015 Defender 110 Station Wagon Utility TDCi |
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21st Oct 2020 10:33am |
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