 | Home > Technical > Side / Spider gears excessive play ? (Puma 110 rear) |
 
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 514  
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I was watching your vid before I read your final comments, and was thinking the same.. I can't see any real movement in the diff casing, and I've looked but can't be sure if the spider gear shaft is worn and causing that play rather than gear tooth wear or clearance..
I suspect it will need replacing if it turns out to be what I've suggested. 😩 |
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15th Mar 2024 11:09am |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3414  
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To me looks normal gear backlash.
Have you checked the drive members? Maybe you should even consider going for one piece halfshafts? 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing 2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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15th Mar 2024 11:30am |
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| MatLandy Member Since: 11 Sep 2020 Location: Paris Posts: 184  
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This is the 4 Pin diff from factory, that is fitted to rear axle of 110/130 since around 2002, and that is found in Pumas and late TD5. (so not the infamous 2 Pin diff found in front axles that is more often discussed on this forum).
@Dinnu : I do have 1 piece halfshafts already, so no play from that area @Andy : I believe the play in the diff is the addition of wear from the pin holding the gears, from worn gear tooth, etc. Another short video for you, where you can see one of the pin the spider gears runs on that seems loose in the casing : ?si=IjTp0R0RKZ6ekiBf /Mat |
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15th Mar 2024 12:55pm |
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 514
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I like your camera work
that play in the pin housing is what I was trying to explain, in my earlier comments.. ive not had a diff apart yet but have read that excessive wheel spin can cause the gears in the diff to rotate far quicker than they were ever designed to and cause the pin housing to oval... if that play is excessive there is no repair or shimming that can do anything.. |
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15th Mar 2024 1:15pm |
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| MatLandy Member Since: 11 Sep 2020 Location: Paris Posts: 184
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drawing of the internals ... courtesy of LR
 Click image to enlarge How can the pin float in the casing as shown in my short video? if the 2 pins are crossing each other in the middle, then they should be relatively solid to one another, and prevent them from floating? /Mat |
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15th Mar 2024 1:34pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8024  
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they are not fixed to each other and move
when do you get the noise? Cheers James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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15th Mar 2024 1:38pm |
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| MatLandy Member Since: 11 Sep 2020 Location: Paris Posts: 184
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I get the "clong" noise when changing for example from reverse to 1st gear, and vice versa. I can also provoke it when parked, engine turned off, handbrake on, rocking the car back and forth, I can clearly hear it coming from the rear diff.
/Mat |
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15th Mar 2024 1:46pm |
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 514
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Possibly there would be more wear in the bore of the spider gears and or the surface of the pin on which they rotate, than in the bore of the casing where the pins locate.. The pins don't rotate but do bear the loads so obviously can distort their housing in the diff case..
As I said I've not had one apart so just my thoughts👍 |
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15th Mar 2024 1:49pm |
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| MatLandy Member Since: 11 Sep 2020 Location: Paris Posts: 184
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Thanks Andy ... I think the same, not having dismantled one myself either.
I unfortunately cannot ignore the "clong" noise for fear of it getting worse at the wrong time at the wrong place etc. So will need to decide on preventive action. Easy but expensive is to get a rebuild unit from ashcroft. Oh well, let's wait a bit and see what the others suggest. /Mat |
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15th Mar 2024 2:29pm |
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 514
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Well I'm interested in this as I have a terrafirma e locker to go in my rear diff.. And an ashcroft atb for the front..
So at some point I'll be getting familiar with diffs🤔🤣.. Have you also checked the backlash or pinion /crown wheel play.. Maybe release the hb with the front wheels chocked and see what movement you get on the propshaft.. |
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15th Mar 2024 2:40pm |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3414
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Are you sure it is not the hand brake not doing the noise during testing. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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15th Mar 2024 2:55pm |
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| MatLandy Member Since: 11 Sep 2020 Location: Paris Posts: 184
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Yes I am sure : laying on the floor under the car, handbrake on, I can rock the landy back and forth grabbing the anti-roll bar with my hands, and the "clung" noise distinctively comes from the rear diff. /Mat |
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15th Mar 2024 4:21pm |
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 514
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I forgot to mention a tool I recently got to help with bearing work on a diff..
Its made by vevor and if you Google clam shell puller.. Normally these type of tools have been prohibitively expensive for one off jobs but this is reasonably priced or was when I got it.. Around the £70 mark if I remember correctly.. Google it and there's a bit on the tube about it.. 👍 |
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15th Mar 2024 4:56pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20348
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Are you sure the pinion oil seal hasn’t worn oval and the bolt has became somewhat loose.
A knackered prop UJ can cause such issues by sending its uneven rotational movement down towards the diff. In turn that can cause further wear on the diff, and excess play in the driveline towards the wheels from the prop. Bearing in mind the UJ nearest the diff could be worth looking at, and is difficult to check without unbolting. $W33T $0U7H3RN $UG4R 🇬🇧🏴🏴🏴🇮🇪🇺🇸⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪 |
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15th Mar 2024 5:03pm |
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