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Caterham

Member Since: 06 Nov 2008
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 6318

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey

pretty sure mine didn't have a gasket and there's been no sign of a leak. Obviously the faces had a real good clean up before hand.

4th Feb 2019 1:38pm

Bluericky

Member Since: 26 Jun 2014
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 647

2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Keswick Green

Thanks Caterham , I’ll give them a clean and use sealant

4th Feb 2019 1:44pm

landy andy

Member Since: 15 Feb 2009
Location: Ware, Herts
Posts: 5805

2006 Defender 110 Td5 USW Zermatt Silver

Just sealant required

4th Feb 2019 2:22pm

andrewlandy

Member Since: 07 Feb 2016
Location: Graz
Posts: 82

2016 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Alpine White

Educate me

Why would a diff go like this?

4th Feb 2019 3:34pm

windy81

Member Since: 14 Mar 2018
Location: North Wales
Posts: 311

would be good to see how 'slotted' the center carrier is.

4th Feb 2019 3:35pm

Bluericky

Member Since: 26 Jun 2014
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 647

I bought an entire axle from a dismantler as I needed a new axle housing after mine snapped on a weld (another story). This is the replacement and it came as an entire axle. As mine had high mileage and this was a supposed low mileage donor I thought it made sense to swap them over like for like.
Clearly that was an error and on hindsight I should have just purchased a new housing but was watching the pennies. Lesson learnt .

No idea what caused this but the steering began wanting to self center quite purposefully as if the diff lock was engaged. The next thing I know there’s a crunching noise whilst doing a three point turn , followed by loss of drive. It wasn’t very dramatic to be honest but I’m glad I wasn’t out in the sticks . The damage to the diff is horrific but it doesn’t appear to have done anything to the half shafts . I’ve been cleaning out all of the fragments from the casing all afternoon!

4th Feb 2019 3:51pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17602

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

In essence the diff is not strong enough for the Puma engine. The load on the pin which mounts the planetary gears in the diff centre is too high, and the hole in the carrier elongates, the pin comes loose, usually shears, and drops out. Once the planetary gears are unrestrained the diff locks up solid and it becomes very difficult to steer (which can be quite disturbing). In some cases the debris from the disintegrating diff can also get caught between the ring and pinion, destroying these, and potentially locking the transmission (though generally everything disintegrates first).

The inadequacy of the 2-gear Rover diff is the reason why late Td5 and all Puma 110 and 130 wb models had the HD P38 four-gear diff in the rear axle, but mysteriously not the front. The 2-gear diff in the front axle was replaced I think around 2010 with a 4-gear Rover pattern diff in LWB vehicles, and this became an option in 90s.

It was in fact it this weakness that was the reason why the 4-gear Rover diff was developed, and no doubt it would have been used in the rear had it been developed earlier. The P38 was used after the Salisbury diff ceased to be an option, but this too has never been entirely satisfactory due to the close spacing and consequent high loading of the pinion bearings. A Rover-pattern 4-gear diff would have been more satisfactory.

4th Feb 2019 4:17pm

Bluericky

Member Since: 26 Jun 2014
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 647

That was an interesting read Blackwolf. You now make me think I should have upgraded to a 4 pin front diff . I did notice they were quite a bit more expensive, presumably because they’re rarer ?

I managed to get the recon diff back in this afternoon, a bit of a struggle when lying on your back but not impossible. Hopefully have it all finished by tomorrow!

4th Feb 2019 5:32pm

Bluericky

Member Since: 26 Jun 2014
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 647

Re: Educate me

windy81 wrote:
would be good to see how 'slotted' the center carrier is.

I’m not sure which component the center carrier is but I can take a pic for you

4th Feb 2019 5:34pm

landy andy

Member Since: 15 Feb 2009
Location: Ware, Herts
Posts: 5805

The center carrier becomes slotted where you see the shiny shaft sticking out on the photo. The photo shows the how my pin broke in my 2011 Tdci, this was due to the holes at either end becoming elongated.

I swapped before major failure by check diff through oil filler hole.

Click image to enlarge

4th Feb 2019 7:05pm

Bluericky

Member Since: 26 Jun 2014
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 647

Yes the holes are hugely elongated where the shaft sat . I’ll take some close ups tomorrow

Click image to enlarge

4th Feb 2019 7:35pm

landy andy

Member Since: 15 Feb 2009
Location: Ware, Herts
Posts: 5805

Yep that’s the norm, and shows the weak point

4th Feb 2019 7:45pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17602

I am told (by an LR tech I completely trust and believe) that LR no longer supply 2-gear diffs as replacements for LWB Pumas. The fours cost more because they're much stronger and are, as you say, both scarcer and more sought-after.

When my front diff did what yours did I found that it was significantly cheaper to buy outright a new built-up Ashcroft diff with ATB and HD ring and pinion than to buy an exchange (recon) 4-gear diff from LR, so that's what I did.

It's worth bearing in mind that that single puny cross-pin is the only thing transmitting power to the halfshafts. So your engine torque, multiplied by the reduction gearing in both boxes is divided equally front and rear by the centre diff, multiplied again by the reduction gearing in the diff, and shoved into that little pin. No wonder they fail!

4th Feb 2019 7:47pm

Bluericky

Member Since: 26 Jun 2014
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 647

I just wanted to conclude this thread.

Diff is now changed and has eliminated all of the issues I was experiencing before it failed , no more torque steer, no more dragging to the left and vague steering.

Interestingly when I spoke to Ashcroft transmissions a couple of weeks ago the chap I spoke to said that an open diff on its way out wouldn’t cause the above symptoms! So it does go to show that even the experts get it wrong .

So now I have a defender that drives well again after months of issues , that along with the satisfaction of doing it all myself having lost all faith in our local mechanics has left me considerably more knowledgeable about my defender and a with big grin on my face !!

Thank you to all who contributed

Now just to sort the blue smoke on start and overrun when cold !! Turbo I feel https://www.instagram.com/hustynminepark/

7th Feb 2019 10:11am

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17602

Bluericky wrote:
... the chap I spoke to said that an open diff on its way out wouldn’t cause the above symptoms! ...

Perhaps he was only there to refill the water-cooler!

7th Feb 2019 5:35pm

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