 | Home > Technical > Resurrecting a Drowned Puma |
 
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| HardCharger Member Since: 03 Mar 2013 Location: Manila Posts: 740   
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Just to update anyone who is interested, all 5 power lock actuators all changed and now working in good order. One thing off the check list.
The engine still experiences the minor knocking from time to time. I guess the best way to describe the noise is like when you're still running on high gear when you should already downshift only this time, you're still in proper gear and the only way to kind of compensate for it is to add more throttle. Together with this, something doesn't sound quite right with the engine. |
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13th Oct 2018 1:56am |
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| landy andy Member Since: 15 Feb 2009 Location: Ware, Herts Posts: 5741 
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The engine noise you describe sounds the same as when my vCV failed. I know you’ve already changed it though, but they are very delicate (too delicate in my opinion). Maybe it just needs to be reprogrammed , but for the cost of sensor I would replace then program
Andy |
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13th Oct 2018 3:33am |
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| HardCharger Member Since: 03 Mar 2013 Location: Manila Posts: 740
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Hi Andy,
Thanks for the feedback. VCV, huh? Man, those things are fragile! Although, given that the system did have water in it, I guess even after a lengthy purge there might still be some condensation after all this time. What a pain! Now that I think about it though, the rev fluctuations ARE a symptom of a problematic VCV... Could it also be air in the system? |
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13th Oct 2018 5:05am |
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| landy andy Member Since: 15 Feb 2009 Location: Ware, Herts Posts: 5741
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I wouldn’t have thought air to be honest, and yes, I think the VCV is stupidly delicate, but that’s why I’ve now got a Td5
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13th Oct 2018 7:11am |
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| JR Member Since: 07 Dec 2012 Location: Auchtermuchty Posts: 532  
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We drowned our 2.4Tdci back in 2012, Luckily the snorkel saved the engine, but we had to change most of the electrics! Luckily the Tdci ecu is a LOT cheaper than a Td5 one!
Other bits we had issues with: New heater required, due to seized control lever actuators. Rear diff, despite 3-4 axle oil changes there was still some water/silt in the casing that we couldn't get out! The transfer box was also replaced! Luckily, these 3 were replaced under the original LR factory warranty! Central Locking: like you, all 5 actuators replaced, but we had to change the CL ecu as well! Ignition ecu. Engine ecu, even though it looked like the under bonnet water level didn't appear to have reached that high. Outside the water level reached the wipers for a while, and inside the water didn't quite reach the radio! Perhaps the hardest bit to bear was £90-worth of fuel that had to be disposed of! It was VERY unfortunate that we had the fuel pump venting system problem that was subject to a factory recall and, as we'd only had the vehicle for a fortnight, we didn't know that our tank venting set-up had split!! All in all I think we spent around £1500 +VAT together with rather a lot of heating oil to dry out the seats & carpets and leccie for a weeks use of a dehumidifyer! As we'd only just bought the vehicle and the insurance company hadn't taken the 1st premium, we had to stump up the (ex-warrantied) repair cost ourselves! Not a good start to the cashflow for a brand new business.........  |
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16th Oct 2018 5:04pm |
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| NickMc Member Since: 01 Oct 2014 Location: Norn Iron Posts: 1632  
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I had a customer drown their Td5 they got absolutely fed up with it and did a deal on the insurance, it just kept having problem after problem, changed looms, and part after part
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16th Oct 2018 6:30pm |
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| HardCharger Member Since: 03 Mar 2013 Location: Manila Posts: 740
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Hi JR,
Thanks for sharing your experiences. The water level I experienced was about half way up the vehicle didn't reach the radio on the inside either. We changed out some sensors in the engine, the VCV, also had to get rid of a full tank of fuel. Changed out the fuel tank breather to the new kind. Changed out all 5 actuators but didn't need to touch the 10AS, thankfully. Was recently experiencing some engine trouble that was indicating not enough fuel reaching the engine. As you can see in one of the previous posts, we thought we needed another VCV but apparently this is not the case for now. It seems that the pulley noise I had when the engine was running was the alternator croaking. Now we're thinking that the engine fueling trouble was due to fluctuating voltage rather than a faulty VCV. Waiting on a new alternator now and once that's in, hopefully, we've eliminated a host of other issues. Also noticed that my AC condenser fan seems to be stuck. Will probably need some applied science (a few knocks) with some penetrating oil to loosen it up again. This is my update for now. Will update again once we get things done. Oh, no dehumidifier right now so he smells musty inside. There is a detailer who's willing to do it for free as a sample car to show their prowess but they won't be available until about the end of the month. |
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17th Oct 2018 2:25am |
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| HardCharger Member Since: 03 Mar 2013 Location: Manila Posts: 740
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Hi All,
An update. The alternator arrived but haven't installed it yet. As I wanted to take it to another buddy of mine for further evaluation, I also wanted him to handle the replacement. Thing is, he would still crank but not turn. Upon subjecting it to OBD tool readings, it was determined that fuel pressure was lacking and that was most likely the reason why he will not fully start. Upon inspecting the fuel lines, it was found that the pipe that leads to the fuel pump is the most likely culprit where the air is getting into the system causing the pressure drop. It was damp with diesel while everything else, including all the other fuel lines, were dry. It's the bit highlighted by the light, behind the VCV.  Click image to enlarge I ordered a new pipe and after much difficulty removing the old one, replaced it with the new one. Click image to enlarge Now upon cranking, he would crank but still would not turn.  Is there something else I'm missing? The pipe where it was damp before is now bone dry so this should not be the problem point anymore. I'm trying to contact my buddy now to borrow his OBD tool again so we can narrow down what may be causing the issue. Since he was running before, could air still be fouling up the fuel system? Would it help if I bled the fuel system? Now that I can butcher the old pipe, I may be able to jury rig a bleed tool as per one of the threads here and bleed the system properly. What do you all think? This bleed tool can be a temporary solution until I can get the "official" bleed tool.
Your input is greatly appreciated as I'm currently stumped as to why he still will not start. I was hoping to get him up and running before the end of the month but as it is, I'll be lucky if I can get him to run before the year ends.
I feel that I shouldn't be too reliant on my buddies as they have their own jobs and issues to worry about, so I guess I should really start trying to be self sufficient with regards to my Defender. I guess it's time to start saving up for my own OBD and tools and garage equipment. First thing's first, I have to get my Defender running properly again and deal with some of the aftermath of the dunking before committing to stock up on parts, tools, and equipment.  |
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8th Nov 2018 4:32am |
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| HardCharger Member Since: 03 Mar 2013 Location: Manila Posts: 740
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Hi All!
Update: Got myself a deal for a diesel priming kit as it was on sale and the price was not bad even with shipping included. Click image to enlarge Got it connected and started fiddling around with all the available connectors until there were no air gaps and leaks in the tool. Click image to enlarge Now, got around to pumping and no diesel coming out! 
I tried plugging the bit that lead to the pipe to pump and when I felt the suction, let go for a bit then low and behold, diesel! But suspiciously, not a continuous stream as one would expect. Fed the line back into the system and get the truck to start but upon observing the tubes on the tool, the diesel would get consumed but there is no flow from the supply side. Once the diesel in the tool ran out, truck stalled again. Additional pumping yields nothing. I tried to open the fuel filler cap just in case it was related and a bit whooshing sound greeted me. Same sound as you would get when opening the cap at the fuel station on MUCH MUCH louder. So loud, even the guy helping me up out in front of the vehicle heard it. Upon consultation with my LR mechanic friends, we determined that the lines should be good as pressure got back into the tank. As for the no fuel thing, it was surmised that since flood water took the place of diesel in the tank and it was a few days before they got around to draining it, the bit that goes into the tank that is the pick up and float assembly is probably damaged. Could be a crack in the intake pipe. Since the truck ran OK when the tank is full, it was also surmised that the presumed crack was submerged in diesel and therefore the truck would run OK, but once it got to 3/4 tank full, the crack would be exposed and start taking in air into the fuel system thus depriving the engine of proper fuel pressure. What do you all think? I reckon that since we found no other leak points that this may be the most likely culprit. In any case, I ordered all the parts in the red triangle seeing as I'll have to pull the tank down, I might as well change all this while I was at it to be sure. Speaking of pulling down the tank, since my mechanic friends are all tied up in their respective garages, I was considering on doing the work myself. What better way to be self sufficient and get to know my truck better, right? Can anyone who has done it on a 110 Puma help walk me through it? Photos, details, tips, and advice all greatly appreciated! |
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16th Nov 2018 2:26am |
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| gazman Member Since: 17 Aug 2015 Location: Liverpool Posts: 652  
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I dont have a puma, but a td5. And on the other side to the filler is a breather tube with a one way valve in it mine was in the passenger wheel arch.
Now bear with me here. 1st thing I would do is find this hose and remove the valve and see if I could blow onto the tank. If not running the engine as the fuel level drops your creating a vacuum. Hence the air rushing in sound you heard. Ove had it on motorbikes when my filler cap got full of mud and wouldnt let air in. Before shelling out on expensive looking parts. If you cant find it I would rig up a way of getting air into the tank and try running it. Ie with the filler cap off 2014 - current ..... 2003 defender td5 90 (my car) 2009 - current .... 2005 zx10r |
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16th Nov 2018 6:08am |
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| gazman Member Since: 17 Aug 2015 Location: Liverpool Posts: 652
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Part number 6 and 22 on your diagram 2014 - current ..... 2003 defender td5 90 (my car)
2009 - current .... 2005 zx10r |
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16th Nov 2018 6:09am |
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| HardCharger Member Since: 03 Mar 2013 Location: Manila Posts: 740
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Hi gazman, thank you for that perspective.
I will try and search for this tube as I've never seen it before. So when I find it and blow into the tank, what should happen? How will I know if this is the problem? Will it benefit me to lengthen and raise this tube as well? My filler cap is new and I do know that it's working properly so I reckon we can rule that out. |
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16th Nov 2018 6:21am |
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| dorsetsmith Member Since: 30 Oct 2011 Location: South West Posts: 4554 |
90 LR018260 ( 6) or Lr018261 110 ----------- (22) MXC1848 |
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16th Nov 2018 8:31am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17470 
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I believe from PMs that Hardcharger and I have been exchanging that his vehicle has the later breather arrangements where the TD5 style breather was deleted, and instead the breather is tee'd into the filler vent pipe.
The photo below shows the top of my early Puma 110 (the 130 is the same but the 90 is different) tank with the TD5 style breathers. On the right of the photo is the breather, on mine this is not the original pipe since years ago I replaced the original with an extended pipe which exits behind the nearside "speaker panel" in the rear tub. On the left of the photo is the filler breather, which exits into the the main filler pipe just below the filler cap, and on the later vehicles the tank breather is tee'd into this near the tank spigot. On my tank this is also not the original hose (this is the one that is notorious for splitting and leaking, it is also incredibly difficult to get to the tank spigot for this one without dropping the tank). On the early vehicles as pictured the breather spigot incorporates the roll-over valve (to prevent fuel leaking if you park upside-down). The entire spigot was deleted from later vehicles. Click image to enlarge |
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16th Nov 2018 9:58am |
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