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Grenadier



Member Since: 23 Jul 2014
Location: The foot of Mont Blanc...
Posts: 5829

France 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Corris Grey
As Blackrangie says, 'I could live with that' if it was called a Discovery. If that was sitting next to my DC, you could see no heritage, no bloodline, no DNA.


Click image to enlarge


Look at the clear lineage of these iconic vehicles.



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And then look at the 'New Defender's' predecessor:




Big Cry Big Cry Big Cry Big Cry

Interestingly, the current Land Cruiser bares no real resemblance to the original and clearly in 2007 Toyota recognised this by launching the FJ. I wonder if JLR will do the same and in ten years we'll see some kind of retro, limited edition released.


Click image to enlarge
 Monsieur Le Grenadier

I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list.....

2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey
Post #789991 2nd Sep 2019 5:17am
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22900013A



Member Since: 23 Dec 2010
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 3150

United Kingdom 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Keswick Green
Nail on head there. There is just something almost dishonest about the use of the Defender name I think. 2011 110 USW
1973 Series III 1-Ton
1972 Series III 1-Ton Cherrypicker
1969 IIA 1-Ton
1966 IIA 88"
Post #789995 2nd Sep 2019 5:45am
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blackrangie



Member Since: 07 Jul 2019
Location: sydney
Posts: 181

Australia 
Grenadier wrote:
As Blackrangie says, 'I could live with that' if it was called a Discovery. If that was sitting next to my DC, you could see no heritage, no bloodline, no DNA.


Hey Grenadier,

1. What are you on about, who has said "i could live with that", if it was called a discovery" there is a quote button for a reason, completely fabricating peoples statements is a bit strange?

2. When people jump to conclusions about something that has not been seen even full by any means as has been proved above just a few posts ago begs a few questions does it not.

Here's a few photos from photos collection including the render which is known to most closely resemble the body from the side and the goodwood shot:


Click image to enlarge







Click image to enlarge



You claim no heritage, no bloodline, no dna, well let's look at the facts, no doubt many of these will surprise you based on your comments (excuse the use of very defender and modern defender bu i cant do a table Rolling with laughter )

    well looking at the interior it looks utilitarian (very defender) but modern with comfortable seats and convenience most people modify in (screens buttons everywhere) (modern defender)

    Looking at the roof, the roof slopes down to the front, (very defender), but with more curves (modern defender)

    Looking at the roof again it has big alpine windows (very defender) but in a slightly more symmetrical spot (modern defender)

    Rear side opening door (very defender)

    Rear mounted spare (very defender)

    Flat wing tops you can rest tools or a beer on (very defender)

    checker plate which could be abs or metal (very defender) with modern curves (modern defender)

    Recovery points all around (very defender)

    Bonnet bulge (very defender)

    Stronger than the rest of the range (very defender)

    More capable than the rest of the range (very defender)

    More capable than the current defender (modern defender)

    Side vents (very defender) different shape (modern defender)

    Snorkel (very defender) rear facing sleek look (modern defender)

    3 across front seat option (very series)

    Mesh at bottom of grill (very series/defender)

    Defender badging (very defender)

    Door handles, (very defender)

    General shape overall (still more to be revealed at rear and roof), (very defender) with curves (modern defender)

    Small diesel avail (very defender) large diesels and petrols coming (modern defender)

    Round front headlights (very defender) sunken round into bonnet (modern defender)

    Two side lights (very defender)2 square side lights (modern defender

    Rear lights (very defender) 2 square side 1 bigger light (modern defender)

    32s standard (very defender) (taller with bigger rims (modern defender)

    Flat side windows (very defender) with side trim @rear) (modern defender)

    Practical mirrors that stick out (very defender) bigger and electric with cameras (modern defender)

    Proper mud flaps (very defender)

    Factory winch and winch tube bar avail (very defender)

    Silver lower section on bumper(very defender) looks like heritage defender silver lower bumper with modern twist and vents (modern defender)

    Pumped out guards (very defender) possibly integrated into body with trim (modern defender)

    Off Road approach and departure angles (very defender) look to be better than most competition and the current defender especially on air


I could do a list of things that are very "undefender" too with most of them being that i'm actually happy about, think safety, breadth of capability, driveability, power, reliability, comfort, emissions)


This is just the stuff I could brainstorm without even the truck being revealed, I imagine the list will keep going after reveal.

There is so much series and defender DNA and bloodline in it it would be an injustice to call it anything else.

It not a current defender, factually its a modern take on the defender with both series and defender bloodline, DNA and Heritage and i think LR should be given credit for including so many nods to the current defender based on what we know so far.
Post #790010 2nd Sep 2019 6:55am
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diduan



Member Since: 13 Oct 2016
Location: Central Balkan
Posts: 260

Bulgaria 
blackrangie, Mercedes were to discontinue the G Wagon when they designed the GL (now GLS), but they were smart enough to realize this was not a G Wagon. So they gave it another name- GL and continued the G Wagon. Defender 110 SW MY2011 2.4tdci decat, no EGR
Jeep Wrangler YJ 1990 4.0. Front 78' Dana 60, Rear CUCV 14 bolt
Post #790018 2nd Sep 2019 7:43am
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Grenadier



Member Since: 23 Jul 2014
Location: The foot of Mont Blanc...
Posts: 5829

France 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Corris Grey
Blackrangie, you’re all a bit feisty for a Monday morning and the 4th test hasn’t even started yet. (although i appreciate after a hard day in the office, and being evening over there, you probably have a right).

I wasn’t putting words in to you mouth. I quoted from a previous post of your. However, it was actually from a quote you had included from Pilgrim: ‘I could live with that’. I then added that in my opinion (which I believe I’m entitled to) that i too would be happy with that, if it was called a Discovery. Nothing more complicated than that and certainly no fabricating statements or jumping to conclusions. Honest mistake, easily made when looking at an iPhone screen at 0700h....

As for the long list of DNA you put in, much (not all) is common of any modern, utilitarian 4x4. Certainly the Lancruiser and Jeep. But I’m referring to ‘looks’. This does not ‘look’ like a Defender. IMHO. The Discovery has a great lineage and is as robust and go-anywhere as a Defender. And a version specc’d for utilitarian use is a great beast. It also had rear wheel mounting, alpine windows, side vents, side steps, flat bonnet wings, the twin-level roof, the harness points, winches, engine configurations, roof racks, snorkels, etc etc. And some of that was also seen in the Freelander. But that ‘under the skin’ DNA, or detail DNA that relate to the ‘marque’ (much like Jaguar and the cross-wire mesh grills that are seen on all cars) are not unique to a Defender and are seen in different guises across the LR range. And they have their own range, names, models etc. But whilst they have taken inspiration from defenders, defenders they most certainly are not. Yet your list is true of all of them. So, in IMHO, the Discovery is what the new Defender looks like it has descended from.

No doubt some journo will take a photo of a Series and/or a Puma sitting next to the new Defender. And it will look nothing like them. Take the same photo next to the Disco 4 and it will. The litmus test would be to ask a Martian which car came from where. Disco 4 or Puma? I warrant the Disco 4 and as I tried to show in my photo pairings, the new Defender will look the least like its forebears than the Jeep, Mini, Porsche, G Wagen etc. Thumbs Up Monsieur Le Grenadier

I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list.....

2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey
Post #790021 2nd Sep 2019 8:06am
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Muddybigdog



Member Since: 11 Apr 2014
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 1019

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Zambezi Silver
From the so called "spy shots" I am seeing a poor "Ginger Cousin", would want to make final decision once seeing in the flesh. Although with LR reputation for "reliability" Rolling with laughter Rolling with laughter Rolling with laughter I will not touch/buy one for at least a year, brand new car, being built in new factory, with newly hired workers, I smell the coffee of LR dealerships by the plenty.

At the price of 2 x Suzuki Jimny's, I will wait, thanks Jumped ship to reliability - Mitsubishi L200
Puma 90 XS - Sold
D3 - 2.7 S x2 (both Sold)
Freelander 2 HSE - Sold
Freelander 1 - Sold
Disco 2 - Sold
Post #790022 2nd Sep 2019 8:07am
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blackrangie



Member Since: 07 Jul 2019
Location: sydney
Posts: 181

Australia 
Sounds about right, in the same way LR are continuing the defender name with the Defender as proven with hard facts above, not emotion.

Its interesting a few bring up the Gwagon as the be all and end all of everything. imo they aren't that amazing

1. They look ugly (my opinion) I do however like the professional version with a snorkel and roof rack.

2. They have no rear legroom with front seats in normal position.

3. They are priced out of reach of all bar the rich.

4. They sell 30-35,000 per year last time i checked, which basically means its like vegemite and or priced too high.

5. When they tried to take them across AU when the new model was released they all failed and had to get parts choppered in.

Having said the above, if the professional was cheaper i could be tempted as its a great bit of kit if you can get over the looks, however not avail in many markets from what i understand.

I hoping LR have a good answer to the gwagon professional or something close in one of the utilitarian versions of the defender. For sure they will for the normal model, thats easy to beat imo.
they talk up how it does so well against the competition so will be interesting to see what they have up their sleeves come reveal.
Post #790023 2nd Sep 2019 8:10am
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blackrangie



Member Since: 07 Jul 2019
Location: sydney
Posts: 181

Australia 
Grenadier wrote:
As Blackrangie says, 'I could live with that' if it was called a Discovery. If that was sitting next to my DC, you could see no heritage, no bloodline, no DNA.


Grenadier wrote:
I quoted from a previous post of your. However, it was actually from a quote you had included from Pilgrim: ‘I could live with that’. I then added that in my opinion (which I believe I’m entitled to) that i too would be happy with that, if it was called a Discovery.



So is that you saying your sorry for fabricating a statement that I apparently said, that I didn't? I in fact said none of it, not one word of it. it even misquotes really the context of what someone else says.
Post #790025 2nd Sep 2019 8:16am
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Martin
Site Admin


Member Since: 02 Apr 2007
Location: Hook Norton
Posts: 6611

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Montalcino Red
I’m being ignored, unbelievable.  1988 90 Td5 NAS soft top
2015 D90 XS SW
Post #790026 2nd Sep 2019 8:21am
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RRUK
Site Supporter


Member Since: 31 Mar 2010
Location: Leicestershire
Posts: 2025

United Kingdom 
I think everyone should stop talking about it and just wait till it's revealed. Then (here's the clever part) decide if you want one or not and just carry on living your life! 2016 D4 HSE

1998 110 TUM HS FFR Hard Top XD WOLF

1982 Series 3 SWB Petrol
Post #790027 2nd Sep 2019 8:27am
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22900013A



Member Since: 23 Dec 2010
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 3150

United Kingdom 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Keswick Green
Got to agree with Grenadier here, although very capable etc there isnt much that's really "Defender" about the styling. Imo the Defender was a Defender *because* it had that obvious visual link to its heritage. This new one looks much closer to the Discovery and even Freelander I think.

As to waiting for more to be revealed.. aside from detail aspects I'm not sure there is much more to see is there? The proportions are not suddenly going to change are they?

Obviously folks like Defenders for different reasons, I do think a lot of enthusiasts are disappointed which is a real shame, I really had hoped they could produce a new vehicle that also appealed to "traditionalists". To be fair I might have liked it more if the rear overhang was a bit longer and the nose was more like the old one. The nose is actually I think the bit people look at first on a car. 2011 110 USW
1973 Series III 1-Ton
1972 Series III 1-Ton Cherrypicker
1969 IIA 1-Ton
1966 IIA 88"
Post #790028 2nd Sep 2019 8:29am
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Martin
Site Admin


Member Since: 02 Apr 2007
Location: Hook Norton
Posts: 6611

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Montalcino Red
The arguing in here MUST stop.

If you don't want or like the new Defender then, to be honest, this probably isn't going to be the thread for you.

Rather than persist with the bickering let's move things forwards. Thanks all.  1988 90 Td5 NAS soft top
2015 D90 XS SW
Post #790051 2nd Sep 2019 10:36am
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AndrewS



Member Since: 10 Apr 2007
Location: Hereford
Posts: 3708

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 130 Puma 2.2 SW Rimini Red
Well said Martin I cant be arsed with this thread anymore Rolling Eyes why not simply lock it Thumbs Up 130's have feeling's as well you know Smile
Post #790053 2nd Sep 2019 10:52am
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jomara



Member Since: 26 Oct 2009
Location: Lanarkshire
Posts: 1790

Scotland 2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Santorini Black

[/img] 2014 110 2.2TDCi XS Station wagon
1971 Bowler Tomcat 88 4.2 V8 Auto
2022 110 D250 XS Edition - Gone
2024 110 D250 X-Dynamic HSE
Post #790054 2nd Sep 2019 10:59am
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LEZ



Member Since: 22 Oct 2015
Location: London
Posts: 167

United Kingdom 
I agree with Martin and Andrew, we are not used to bickering on this site and its become unsatisfactory.
Post #790064 2nd Sep 2019 11:52am
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