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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5804   
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As Blackrangie says, 'I could live with that' if it was called a Discovery. If that was sitting next to my DC, you could see no heritage, no bloodline, no DNA.
 Click image to enlarge Look at the clear lineage of these iconic vehicles. Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge And then look at the 'New Defender's' predecessor:
Interestingly, the current Land Cruiser bares no real resemblance to the original and clearly in 2007 Toyota recognised this by launching the FJ. I wonder if JLR will do the same and in ten years we'll see some kind of retro, limited edition released. Click image to enlarge Monsieur Le Grenadier I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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2nd Sep 2019 5:17am |
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| 22900013A Member Since: 23 Dec 2010 Location: Oxfordshire Posts: 3149  
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Nail on head there. There is just something almost dishonest about the use of the Defender name I think. 2011 110 USW
1973 Series III 1-Ton 1972 Series III 1-Ton Cherrypicker 1969 IIA 1-Ton 1966 IIA 88" |
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2nd Sep 2019 5:45am |
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| diduan Member Since: 13 Oct 2016 Location: Central Balkan Posts: 260 
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blackrangie, Mercedes were to discontinue the G Wagon when they designed the GL (now GLS), but they were smart enough to realize this was not a G Wagon. So they gave it another name- GL and continued the G Wagon. Defender 110 SW MY2011 2.4tdci decat, no EGR
Jeep Wrangler YJ 1990 4.0. Front 78' Dana 60, Rear CUCV 14 bolt |
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2nd Sep 2019 7:43am |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5804
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Blackrangie, you’re all a bit feisty for a Monday morning and the 4th test hasn’t even started yet. (although i appreciate after a hard day in the office, and being evening over there, you probably have a right).
I wasn’t putting words in to you mouth. I quoted from a previous post of your. However, it was actually from a quote you had included from Pilgrim: ‘I could live with that’. I then added that in my opinion (which I believe I’m entitled to) that i too would be happy with that, if it was called a Discovery. Nothing more complicated than that and certainly no fabricating statements or jumping to conclusions. Honest mistake, easily made when looking at an iPhone screen at 0700h.... As for the long list of DNA you put in, much (not all) is common of any modern, utilitarian 4x4. Certainly the Lancruiser and Jeep. But I’m referring to ‘looks’. This does not ‘look’ like a Defender. IMHO. The Discovery has a great lineage and is as robust and go-anywhere as a Defender. And a version specc’d for utilitarian use is a great beast. It also had rear wheel mounting, alpine windows, side vents, side steps, flat bonnet wings, the twin-level roof, the harness points, winches, engine configurations, roof racks, snorkels, etc etc. And some of that was also seen in the Freelander. But that ‘under the skin’ DNA, or detail DNA that relate to the ‘marque’ (much like Jaguar and the cross-wire mesh grills that are seen on all cars) are not unique to a Defender and are seen in different guises across the LR range. And they have their own range, names, models etc. But whilst they have taken inspiration from defenders, defenders they most certainly are not. Yet your list is true of all of them. So, in IMHO, the Discovery is what the new Defender looks like it has descended from. No doubt some journo will take a photo of a Series and/or a Puma sitting next to the new Defender. And it will look nothing like them. Take the same photo next to the Disco 4 and it will. The litmus test would be to ask a Martian which car came from where. Disco 4 or Puma? I warrant the Disco 4 and as I tried to show in my photo pairings, the new Defender will look the least like its forebears than the Jeep, Mini, Porsche, G Wagen etc.  Monsieur Le Grenadier
I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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2nd Sep 2019 8:06am |
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| Muddybigdog Member Since: 11 Apr 2014 Location: Suffolk Posts: 1016 
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From the so called "spy shots" I am seeing a poor "Ginger Cousin", would want to make final decision once seeing in the flesh. Although with LR reputation for "reliability"
 I will not touch/buy one for at least a year, brand new car, being built in new factory, with newly hired workers, I smell the coffee of LR dealerships by the plenty.
At the price of 2 x Suzuki Jimny's, I will wait, thanks Jumped ship to reliability - Mitsubishi L200 Puma 90 XS - Sold D3 - 2.7 S x2 (both Sold) Freelander 2 HSE - Sold Freelander 1 - Sold Disco 2 - Sold |
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2nd Sep 2019 8:07am |
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| blackrangie Member Since: 07 Jul 2019 Location: sydney Posts: 181 
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Sounds about right, in the same way LR are continuing the defender name with the Defender as proven with hard facts above, not emotion.
Its interesting a few bring up the Gwagon as the be all and end all of everything. imo they aren't that amazing 1. They look ugly (my opinion) I do however like the professional version with a snorkel and roof rack. 2. They have no rear legroom with front seats in normal position. 3. They are priced out of reach of all bar the rich. 4. They sell 30-35,000 per year last time i checked, which basically means its like vegemite and or priced too high. 5. When they tried to take them across AU when the new model was released they all failed and had to get parts choppered in. Having said the above, if the professional was cheaper i could be tempted as its a great bit of kit if you can get over the looks, however not avail in many markets from what i understand. I hoping LR have a good answer to the gwagon professional or something close in one of the utilitarian versions of the defender. For sure they will for the normal model, thats easy to beat imo. they talk up how it does so well against the competition so will be interesting to see what they have up their sleeves come reveal. |
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2nd Sep 2019 8:10am |
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| blackrangie Member Since: 07 Jul 2019 Location: sydney Posts: 181
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So is that you saying your sorry for fabricating a statement that I apparently said, that I didn't? I in fact said none of it, not one word of it. it even misquotes really the context of what someone else says. |
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2nd Sep 2019 8:16am |
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| Martin Site Admin Member Since: 02 Apr 2007 Location: Hook Norton Posts: 6604 
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I’m being ignored, unbelievable.
1988 90 Td5 NAS soft top
2015 D90 XS SW |
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2nd Sep 2019 8:21am |
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| RRUK Site Supporter Member Since: 31 Mar 2010 Location: Leicestershire Posts: 2025
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I think everyone should stop talking about it and just wait till it's revealed. Then (here's the clever part) decide if you want one or not and just carry on living your life! 2016 D4 HSE
1998 110 TUM HS FFR Hard Top XD WOLF 1982 Series 3 SWB Petrol |
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2nd Sep 2019 8:27am |
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| 22900013A Member Since: 23 Dec 2010 Location: Oxfordshire Posts: 3149
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Got to agree with Grenadier here, although very capable etc there isnt much that's really "Defender" about the styling. Imo the Defender was a Defender *because* it had that obvious visual link to its heritage. This new one looks much closer to the Discovery and even Freelander I think.
As to waiting for more to be revealed.. aside from detail aspects I'm not sure there is much more to see is there? The proportions are not suddenly going to change are they? Obviously folks like Defenders for different reasons, I do think a lot of enthusiasts are disappointed which is a real shame, I really had hoped they could produce a new vehicle that also appealed to "traditionalists". To be fair I might have liked it more if the rear overhang was a bit longer and the nose was more like the old one. The nose is actually I think the bit people look at first on a car. 2011 110 USW 1973 Series III 1-Ton 1972 Series III 1-Ton Cherrypicker 1969 IIA 1-Ton 1966 IIA 88" |
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2nd Sep 2019 8:29am |
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| Martin Site Admin Member Since: 02 Apr 2007 Location: Hook Norton Posts: 6604
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The arguing in here MUST stop.
If you don't want or like the new Defender then, to be honest, this probably isn't going to be the thread for you. Rather than persist with the bickering let's move things forwards. Thanks all. 1988 90 Td5 NAS soft top
2015 D90 XS SW |
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2nd Sep 2019 10:36am |
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| AndrewS Member Since: 10 Apr 2007 Location: Hereford Posts: 3707 
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Well said Martin I cant be arsed with this thread anymore
 why not simply lock it 130's have feeling's as well you know  |
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2nd Sep 2019 10:52am |
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| jomara Member Since: 26 Oct 2009 Location: Lanarkshire Posts: 1790  
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[/img] 2014 110 2.2TDCi XS Station wagon 1971 Bowler Tomcat 88 4.2 V8 Auto 2022 110 D250 XS Edition - Gone 2024 110 D250 X-Dynamic HSE |
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2nd Sep 2019 10:59am |
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| LEZ Member Since: 22 Oct 2015 Location: London Posts: 167
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I agree with Martin and Andrew, we are not used to bickering on this site and its become unsatisfactory.
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2nd Sep 2019 11:52am |
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