 | Home > Maintenance & Modifications > Headlights (again) - Not LED but how about HID Xenon? |
 
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| Matt_H Member Since: 19 Sep 2018 Location: Cornwall Posts: 42   
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Hello All,
First post so please be gentle. My wife has a 58 plate 2.4 and at the start of this year I decided to replace the awful stnadard headlights with LED lights. This was fairly OK and the units were CE marked (what little that means) but I have to say, apart from being VERY bright, the beam pattern wasn't wow and the depth of dark penetration didn't seem great (probably as the light is not well focused) - I have to say I was never convinced the car would get through its next MOT with them (not due yet). From my own understanding I thought that as the current draw for LEDs was lower than bulbs all would be well with the wiring loom, and that seems to have borne entirely true. I previously had to replace the column switch over a year ago on the original headlights, but no such issues with LED. To the crux of it - this week one of the LED lamps has started playing up - I've lost the main beam diodes on one side, and the sidelight has started flickering with any significant vibrations (so I'd say a contact issue rather than voltage). This has prompted me to think about replacing the LEDs for something with a better beam pattern and that may pass an MOT! So I've been wondering about these: https://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/p/car-acc...mp;cc5_774 My only real reservation is that I believe Xenons will need 8-9Amps initially to get going, rather than the 3 or so the LEDs need. Knowing that a lot has been written about the Headlight wiring loom, and having witnessed a melted headlamp switch myself I am really keen to know other people's thoughts on the best approach. All and any opinions kindly received - if this has been covered before, my apologies & thread links please. Cheers, Matt. |
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19th Sep 2018 3:48pm |
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| DAZ110 Member Since: 06 Dec 2007 Location: East Sussex Posts: 2051
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I don’t know, I might be wrong, but I thought HID’s were illegal?
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19th Sep 2018 4:03pm |
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| Bluest Member Since: 23 Apr 2016 Location: Lancashire Posts: 4242 
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First up, retrofitting the prduct you linked to is unlikely to give you the proper beam pattern. A halogen headlight is designed to work with a bulb with very carefully placed filaments. I don't believe it is possible to replicate that with retrofit HID or LED. You are highly likely to end up with the same problem you have now, A very bright headlight with incorrect beam that may well dazzle oncoming traffic unduly. It's not legal to do this either. No H4 HID retrofit is correctly approved fo use on the road.
In my view, you've got two legal options. 1) Get better quality legal LED units (TruckLite, Speaker, Nolden etc etc.). However, I would suggest finding some to try somehow before you buy, as I do find my Trucklites have different pattern to H4 with a sharper cut off and no kick up to the left, so may not be to your liking. 2) Revert back to halogen, use a quality H4 bulb (Osram, Philips, PIAA) in a Wipac Crystal Headlight, powered through a Landreiziger or Boomslang loom to take the load off the switch and get full poer to the bulb. I had this set up before and it was nearly as bright as the Trucklites but with an easier on they beam in my view. If I wasn't so vain and like the look of the LED lights I'd switch back. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS |
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19th Sep 2018 4:10pm |
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| leeds Member Since: 28 Dec 2009 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 8582
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Changing the type of light source in a headlight is illegal!
Basic reason a headlight has to have an approval mark by law which includes a light function code. Now the latest MOT regulations specfically says
Please learn what various expressions mean. EC means European Conformity which basically says there are no harmful products in it, i.e. mercury, arsenic etc. So EC does not mean a headlight is road legal. E marked is an expression which is confusing and often deliberately used to mislead consumers. The UK Vehicle Lighting Regulations state that headlights must have an approval mark. The E mark E + number in a circle is a country code. The country code is part of the approval mark which is a legal requirement. If you want to see what an approval mark looks like have a look at UNECE regulation 48. Today we got an email offering us HID bulbs. Complete with photographs. Main beam f 3.5 and 1/20 second, low beam f 3.5 and 1/13 second. Now I wonder why the longer exposure on low beam?? Filed straight away under B 1 N. Brendan |
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19th Sep 2018 6:29pm |
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| leeds Member Since: 28 Dec 2009 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 8582
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When looking at uprated bulbs look for the B3 and Tc figures which will give you an idea of possible service life.
Brendan |
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19th Sep 2018 6:35pm |
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| Matt_H Member Since: 19 Sep 2018 Location: Cornwall Posts: 42
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Hi All, many thanks for the inputs, much appreciated.
A couple of follow-on then if I may: Is it a difficult / easy job to replace the wiring loom? have they been designed as "plug and play" with the existing column switch loom extension etc? Mindful of what was said about the standard lamp enclosures being designed to take light from the position of the filament in the H4 bulb, would something like this be an option for LED? https://www.gearbest.com/car-headlights/pp...wcQAvD_BwE Or, alternatively on the basis that a HID bulb in the current enclosure is illegal, how about something like this for HID? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/112147364994 Many thanks again, Matt. |
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20th Sep 2018 7:39am |
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| Matt_H Member Since: 19 Sep 2018 Location: Cornwall Posts: 42
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They are in my Discovery and a lot of new cars, so whilst they may not feature in the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations of 1989 I reckon a precident has been set? Having looked briefly at the Regs (plus amendment in 1994) they don't seem to say much about the lamp construction actually? |
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20th Sep 2018 7:47am |
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| Matt_H Member Since: 19 Sep 2018 Location: Cornwall Posts: 42
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..didn't know that! So upgrading from a standard filament headight bulb to a Halogen bulb is a no-no, or as they are both filament-style its ok? |
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20th Sep 2018 7:56am |
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| leeds Member Since: 28 Dec 2009 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 8582
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HID and LED headlights are not illegal if they are manufactured as a complete unit and have gone through the correct approval testing and carry the correct genuine approval markings.
What is illegal is to change the light source within a headlight as a headlight designed tested and approved for a particular light source is not approved for alternative light source. Now from DoT
It is an offence to supply, fit or use a defective item on a motor vehicle. Companies such as Halfords, Ring etc clearly state that the LED bulbs they supply are for off road use only. There are many sellers making claims that there lights are road legal. To be road legal must have an approval mark which includes a light function code as part of the approval mark. For headlights the light function codes include the class of headlight and the actual light source. Here is a list of headlight codes C Low (dip) beam headlamp, tungsten filament R High (main) beam headlamp or driving lamp, tungsten filament CR Low and high (dip and main) beam headlamp, Class-A (usually tungsten filament) C/R Low and high (dip and main) beam headlamp with low and high beams not to be operated simultaneously, Class-A (usually tungsten filament) HC Low (dip) beam headlamp, Class-B (usually halogen or LED) HR High (main) beam headlamp or driving lamp, Class-B (usually halogen or LED) HCR Low and high (dip and main) beam headlamp, Class-B (usually halogen or LED) HC/R Low and high (dip and main) beam headlamp with low and high beams not to be operated simultaneously, Class-B (usually halogen or LED) DC Low (dip) beam headlamp, gas discharge (HID, "Xenon") DR High (main) beam headlamp or driving lamp, gas discharge (HID, "Xenon") DCR Low and high (dip and main) beam headlamp, gas discharge (HID, "Xenon") DC/R Low and high (dip and main) beam headlamp with low and high beams not to be operated simultaneously, gas discharge (HID, "Xenon") The only legal way of changing light source in a headlight is to change the complete unit. If your vehicle is not road legal then that can have serious consequences on your motor insurance. One way of telling if a light unit is road legal is there a reputable manufacturers name on it? It is not a legal requirement but most if not all reputable manufacturers put their name on it. Cheap unbranded lights are just that cheap. We get emails offering us cheap and I mean dirt cheap lights with offers to put on any markings we ask for! Brendan |
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20th Sep 2018 8:12am |
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| Matt_H Member Since: 19 Sep 2018 Location: Cornwall Posts: 42
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Hi Brendan, thanks for the further clarification.
Please recognise I have originally fitted full LED enclosures/lights designed/built for that purpose so therefore should be "legal", and am seeking another MOT compliant/insurance compliant solution. I don't want to bodge something together, I'm just exploring optioins with you people who clearly know more about it than me 
So is there a "grey area" with these (from my last post - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/112147364994 ) as they are designed for HID ? (I['m not saying the quality is great, just exploring the principle) Thanks for your further input. Matt. |
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20th Sep 2018 8:36am |
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| Martin Site Admin Member Since: 02 Apr 2007 Location: Hook Norton Posts: 6641 
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HID need some sort of automatic levelling system to be legal as well. Which is why you couldn't get Xenons on a coil-sprung Discovery 3 - the air suspension is used to level them.
 1988 90 Td5 NAS soft top
2015 D90 XS SW |
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20th Sep 2018 8:57am |
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| geobloke Member Since: 06 Nov 2012 Location: Nottinghamshire Posts: 4410
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If you do decide to go down the route of upgrading the wiring harness in your Defender to maximize their output may I suggest you do not go for a cheap setup off eBay. Choose something with a reputable name, I am sure Brendan must have something in his shop he can recommend.
The reason for this statement is that the cheap wiring harnesses are barely up to spec and will fail. For me it was the relay mounting block that melted causing the lights to cut out on a dual carriageway at night. Thankfully it was not raining... The bonus with this type of system is that should something like this happen you can revert to the original LR harness within 10 minutes. Just remember to have a torch in your cubby box... |
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20th Sep 2018 9:08am |
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| Bluest Member Since: 23 Apr 2016 Location: Lancashire Posts: 4242
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I can’t see any mention of approvals with the product you linked. I’m sure if they were correctly approved the seller would be shouting about it. Regardless of the legality, you’ve no indication if they actually a decent spread of light anyway. Plus as Martin says, you’ve no levelling system. In my view the best value totally legal option is the Landreiziger loom, Osram Nightbreaker H4 bulbs in Wipac Crystal headlights. Lots of people have done this, including me, and there is concensus that it works well. You could easily do the whole lot for less than £100. The only tricky bit is skinning your knuckles trying to get the loom connected to the alternator positive. The rest of the wiring is plug and play. One other thing, when you’ve changed the headlights for whatever you end up getting, get the beam set by a garage as that can make a big difference. My local place only charged a tenner to do it. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS |
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20th Sep 2018 12:14pm |
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| leeds Member Since: 28 Dec 2009 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 8582
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Have a good look at https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/112147364994
Seller ukwholesellar, well must admit I am not a fan of American English. Yes units are located in the USA so chances are you will get hit with import duties and VAT charges. Look at brand UKwholesellar. Never heard of them as light manufacturers so a cheap Chinese light where they will engrave anything you like on the lens? Colour temperature 10,000K. Now that is right at the blue end of light, good for aquariums and plant growing etc. Normal daylight is about 6,000-6,500K Now an American seller not even saying they are DOT compliant (correct expression) or DOT approved (DOT is USA Department of Transport and they do not approve any lights). So basically no approvals. You have to 'glue seal' (sic) to prevent moisture ingress. No mention of IP rating, light output, current draw etc. Well my advice would be to steer clear. Now what technical advice/backup/support will you get? What about warranty issues? However it is your money etc. Brendan |
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20th Sep 2018 1:49pm |
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