 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > 2009 tdci intermittent underboost and limp mode |
 
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| lost gringo Member Since: 28 May 2018 Location: santiago Posts: 18   
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seems this is like the common cold with these beasts. i never did find a smoking gun or broke part. my 2.2 did this reliably when it reached operating temperature after like ten minutes of up to 90 kmph. no stress driving. went on for months. i didnt worry much as my driving is mostly city.
my error code was usually 2263 but always related to turbo boost etc. confusion was probably self generated by my fooling with cables and sensors. i had taken the actuator loose and verified the vanes were free, no prob there. wiring looks lgood too. my last desperate action was to spray carb cleaner into the MAP sensor and Q-tip it gently. it was kinda cruddy but nothing special was noted. Until road tested it. works great, i feel lilke its might even be more responsive than before the problem started. only thing i can point to is that there seemed to be some oil in the inlet tube, like vapor condensating on the sensors after the turbo. the MAT sensor was oily, just a little. could be i have or had, some event whereby crankcase vapors were excessive. i think these two sensors are not in the EGR circuit such that if that malfuncioned they would suffer. i believe it came from the breather tube which feeds into the intake when the turbo is "at rest" and closes when it is pushing. another thing i did was take the actuator off, open it up and give it the evil eye. looked like new inside and i turned the motor til it was in like half cycle then reinstalled it. on power on it returned to almost where it was and on starting engine it returned to its origional position. never did actually see it operate in the shop other than that time. in any case, at the moment, im good. good luck and let us know what results |
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6th Aug 2018 4:08pm |
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| mata Member Since: 24 Jan 2014 Location: Manchester Posts: 153  
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MAP was one of the first things I had changed after first having this issue, more recently I’ve done the MAF and this didn’t resolve things either. I don’t think it a waste of money, as far as I know they where the original sensors with 9 years and 140k miles on them so can’t hurt to have new ones.
After speaking to ECU repair they needed the prt number off the Hella actuator to be able to say if they had repaired that particular unit before - they say they use a big database to keep track of their ever evolving list of parts repaired. When I’ve gone to check I’ve noticed that there’s quite a lot of play in the spindle coming out of the back of the actuator that can’t be a good thing so perhaps this is a good sign that I’m on the right track. The play translates to perhaps 3 or 4 mm laterall In the connecting arm. Should this be the fault, and really who knows without changing or repairing it, it Does make me wonder about spending £165 - £195 +vat and delivery on getting it repaired but still having a turbo with 140k miles on it when I perhaps should be thinking about a complete recon turbo. Then I start having silly ideas about hybrid units but then I’d be into intercoolers, boost pipes and more money on remapping! |
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6th Aug 2018 4:54pm |
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| ian series 1 Member Since: 17 Nov 2014 Location: south Posts: 3127 
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Why not take a gamble on a cheap EBay one?
https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Transit-Land...%7Ciid%3A1 I’ve never personally tried one, but for £80 it’s probably worth taking a punt! 
Edited to say, I didn’t realise this was a repair service! I thought it was a cheap replacement unit.  80" 80" 86" 88" 90"
Wanted, Forward Control Anything considered. |
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6th Aug 2018 5:15pm |
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| mata Member Since: 24 Jan 2014 Location: Manchester Posts: 153
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Yhea fair one but I’m not the gambling type with the Defender; I’d rather spend the money upfront on the most lasting repair possible than deal with a breakdown or further aggravation or good money after bad.
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6th Aug 2018 8:03pm |
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| mata Member Since: 24 Jan 2014 Location: Manchester Posts: 153
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I read somewhere that you can’t fit a different actuator as its calibrated in the factory to work with the turbo it’s controlling, perhaps a reason why you can’t buy an actuator off LR, only the turbo complete with actuator. I’m sure there’ll be some clever people / Services out there that can calibrate one for you, I guess that’s one of the processes they’d go through at ECUtesting...[/b]
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7th Aug 2018 7:41pm |
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| Caterham Member Since: 06 Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 6300  
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/\ I recall once seeing the actuator do a cycle after disconnecting it. I assumed this was a type of self learn? In which case does it really need calibrating (I don't know)?
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8th Aug 2018 7:35am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17444 
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I don't think that the actuator is calibrated to the turbo in any way, the ECM would take care of that by learning what actuator position results in what boost.
A common problem with all TDCi Defenders is chafing damage to the engine harness. Don't rely on the fact that your vehicle isn't in the range quoted in the recall, the are ALL subject to chafing at every point where the harness attaches to the engine. My Defender lost all boost a few years ago, with the actuator parked in the "zero boost" extreme position (operating lever at bottom limit of travel IIRC) and I suspected actuator failure, although curiously no DTCs were logged. I changed the actuator for one off a spare turbo and it made no difference whatsoever. Eventually I found that the engine harness was severely chafed in several places, the worst area being between the fuel pump and where the a/c compressor would be if I had a/c, to the extent that one of the sense wires from the actuator had been severed completely. More disturbingly the main charging feed from the alternator to the battery (which is permanently live and unfused) had a massive notch in the insulation and can only have been within days of shorting the battery directly to ground. Needless to say the harness came off, was repaired, and reattached in a much more scientific way than the factory had attached it. Incidentalyl this is a non-aircon vehicle, so not covered by the recall. Unless you have an intermittent short on one of the wires I suspect that your problem may be different since in my case (broken wire) no amount of restarting would clear the symptoms. You have, I imagine, already disconnected the actuator operating lever from the turbo and checked that the turbo vane lever moves smoothly from one extreme to the other? There should be negligible resistance to movement. |
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8th Aug 2018 8:04am |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8051 
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glad you have sorted this now Mata and didn't need to respond.
Cheers
James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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8th Aug 2018 12:57pm |
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| mata Member Since: 24 Jan 2014 Location: Manchester Posts: 153
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Blackwolf, thanks for your detailed reply.
jst, this is very far from sorted, I just haven’t had an opportunity to investigate any of this since fitting a new MAf then heading off for a camping trip in Yorkshire having not made the ferry over to France. I will be reporting back when I get to the bottom of it all so anyone searching the threads with similar symptoms can see how this was resolved and hopefully be able to find it useful. Just arrived back home having the EML and limp mode symptoms once more and ending up in lane 1 with the lorries. I had a quick look under the bonnet yesterday to get the prt number off the actuator and that’s when I noticed the play on the actuator spindle. The wiring is very snug over the ac compressor so unpicking all that will be one of the first things I look at along with checking for free movement of the turbo veins. If that all checks out the question is wether to send the actuator off for an overhaul or maybe fit a new or recon turbo and actuator given the miles it’s done. Thanks everyone for the input so far. Mat |
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8th Aug 2018 2:02pm |
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| mata Member Since: 24 Jan 2014 Location: Manchester Posts: 153
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Right, interesting.
The main engine loom looks ok but was definitely on its way out where its zip tied to steel support brackets. They have worn through the corrugated plastic tube and have begun to damage the insulation of the wires, but i think i've caught this in time. In spite of the loom being snug over the AC pump the wiring is so far also intact in this area too, so im ruling this out for now. The turbo vein geometry adjustment lever is a different story. After removing the cir-clip off the actuator i gently lifted the link arm to what felt like an end stop and there it stuck and would not budge . After a bit of thought I ended up getting both thumbs on it and with a fair bit of pressure it will pop back down; its odd, there's very little resistance when lifting it up. If i gently lift it to a point near the end stop and push it back down i can feel slight graunching, i've read somewhere this can be carbon deposits and this feels like that could be an explanation. Watching this video this clearly shouldn't be happening so am i to presume i need a new turbo? Theres also play in the spindle of the actuator, similar to the amount seen in this video Thanks again, Mat. |
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8th Aug 2018 4:27pm |
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| mata Member Since: 24 Jan 2014 Location: Manchester Posts: 153
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Further investigation shows after revving the engine with the vehicle stationary the vein lever on the turbo sticking and binding the actuator arm and actuator solid. It can be forced down again but this has to be my issue so i guess i need a new turbo....
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9th Aug 2018 5:20pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17444
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Sadly it sounds as though you are correct.
At least you seem to have identified the problem, and hopefully pre-empted another with the harness. |
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9th Aug 2018 5:38pm |
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| Caterham Member Since: 06 Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 6300
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its the work of the devil, or should I say EGR.
get it blanked and don't let the next turbo get contaminated |
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9th Aug 2018 7:08pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17444
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^^^ Care to explain how the EGR valve could do this?
It's more likely to be the absence of a catch can on the crankcase breather. |
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9th Aug 2018 9:34pm |
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