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nickburt



Member Since: 26 Apr 2018
Location: Wallasey
Posts: 26

United Kingdom 
TD5 Defender not starting
Working on a Defender TD5 that turns over, but won't start without some help with a squirt of ezistart.
Was running one day, then next morning refused to start - no symptoms of power loss or anything noticeably unusual.

Tried:
3 starter motors - all known to be good - came off running engines.
2 injector looms - both good - came off running engines
2 crank sensors - both good, as above, came off running engines
4 fuel pumps - all off running vehicles.
Jump leads to bypass stater lead, plus earth direct to battery.
New fuel filter, changed and bled, pump runs fine and pumps up pressure OK - haven't checked the actual pressure, but as the pumps tried came of known running engines, no reason to suspect low pressure from any f them.
Injector washers and seals etc... changed for new.

Battery drops to 10.8 volts when cranking and will hold at 10.8v for 30 odd seconds of cranking. Cranking speed is around 240 -260 rpm. (Snap On Solas plugged in while cranking).
Also tried with a boost pack connected, so keeping voltage up at 12+v.

Read somewhere that the engine needs to be turning at 300 rpm (can't remember where now!!!), before it'll trigger the injectors.

Give it a small squirt of ezistart and it'll be enough to get the cranking revs up and it will then fire and run fine. It's as if the ezistart is helping get the starting revs up over 300, so it'll trigger the injectors.

Once it's running, it runs and drives fine, no power loss, no excessive smoke etc... etc...

Tried it with the clutch pedal dipped - in case the clutch is dragging the revs down - no different.
Tried it with the auxiliary belt off, in case power steering pump or one of the idlers was slowing it down - no different.

When trying to start this one stood next to another, it's noticeably slower than the other during cranking to start.

Got two of us baffled Big Cry Big Cry - any ideas please. 1986, 127, ex Fire Tender and Ambulance
Post #707963 18th May 2018 7:19pm
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ickle



Member Since: 22 Jul 2010
Location: South Vendee
Posts: 1776

France 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Alpine White
one of the ancillaries seized? Alternator, air con etc slowing the cranking down - drop the belt off and try to start?

Good luck

Keith
Post #707967 18th May 2018 7:28pm
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nickburt



Member Since: 26 Apr 2018
Location: Wallasey
Posts: 26

United Kingdom 
Yup, tried that. Thumbs Up Thumbs Up

nickburt wrote:
....................
Tried it with the auxiliary belt off, in case power steering pump or one of the idlers was slowing it down - no different.
....................
 1986, 127, ex Fire Tender and Ambulance
Post #707968 18th May 2018 7:32pm
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ickle



Member Since: 22 Jul 2010
Location: South Vendee
Posts: 1776

France 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Alpine White
sorry, have now put glasses on and re read! Embarassed
Post #707970 18th May 2018 7:36pm
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nickburt



Member Since: 26 Apr 2018
Location: Wallasey
Posts: 26

United Kingdom 
Laughing Laughing 1986, 127, ex Fire Tender and Ambulance
Post #707972 18th May 2018 7:46pm
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ickle



Member Since: 22 Jul 2010
Location: South Vendee
Posts: 1776

France 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Alpine White
You've obviously tried another battery, used booster cables and swapped starters so that side of things should be OK
Never played with a TD5 but there's no way the starter ring gear can be damaged / misaligned and causing mechanical resistance is there?

Otherwise a partially blocked / restricted exhaust might be enough to slow it down turning over

Hopefully someone with better knowledge than me will be along in a bit...
Post #707974 18th May 2018 8:03pm
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nickburt



Member Since: 26 Apr 2018
Location: Wallasey
Posts: 26

United Kingdom 
Didn't try another battery, but the voltage readings are good and by using a booster have eliminated the battery.
Didn't think about exhaust, but I don't think that's an issue.
doesn't make any strange noises while turning over, some making the assumption ring gear etc.. is OK, and having tried 4 starters, all sounding similar, think that side of things is OK. 1986, 127, ex Fire Tender and Ambulance
Post #707979 18th May 2018 8:18pm
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BCdefender



Member Since: 26 Oct 2015
Location: Nanaimo
Posts: 211

Canada 1999 Defender 110 Td5 CSW Orkney Grey
I'm having the same problem. Did you ever figure this out? 1999 Defender 110
2003 P38
2007 RR SC

"And that's why it needs to be celebrated, because when the Defender goes we'll have lost this pointer to where we came from, and we're really going to miss it."

My build thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic47750.html
Post #712098 12th Jun 2018 7:08pm
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nickburt



Member Since: 26 Apr 2018
Location: Wallasey
Posts: 26

United Kingdom 
Nope.

We've also tried all new starter and earth leads, additional earth from starter bolt to battery neg terminal, so eliminated all the possible volt drops in the wiring to the starter.

Will not get up to 300 rpm, so the injectors aren't being energised. Best we've seen is 280 rpm.

Parked up for now - wondering what to do next ... 1986, 127, ex Fire Tender and Ambulance
Post #712099 12th Jun 2018 7:15pm
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kweese



Member Since: 28 Apr 2015
Location: Van
Posts: 62

Canada 1999 Defender 110 Td5 SW Belize Green
I had the same problems. Changed injector rings and seals, injector loom, crank sensor, fuel filter inlets.. still nothing worked. I decided to bring the starter to rebuild.. .. and of course it was that. Now it starts in half a second.
Post #713372 20th Jun 2018 6:56am
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pj2106



Member Since: 20 Dec 2012
Location: Huntingdon AKA The Shire
Posts: 1500

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Stornoway Grey
I know a simple thing have you tried blowing fuel lines out and fresh diesel?

Also check fuel filter head isn’t cracked 2008 110 2.4 XS Utility (Hagrid)
2002 90 TD5 Hardtop (Sully) Sold
1998 300TDi D1 (Billy) Sold
Post #713496 20th Jun 2018 5:58pm
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nickburt



Member Since: 26 Apr 2018
Location: Wallasey
Posts: 26

United Kingdom 
The problem is that it doesn't get to 300 rpm before operating the injectors.

I'm convinced it's a starter or starter wiring/earth problem. Having tried 3 known good starters, I'm now certain it's wiring related - volt drop etc... 1986, 127, ex Fire Tender and Ambulance
Post #713570 20th Jun 2018 10:11pm
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grafty99



Member Since: 15 Aug 2012
Location: North Devon
Posts: 4785

United Kingdom 2002 Defender 90 Td5 HT Caledonian Blue
Have you tried a new positive feed from battery to starter? It could have broken down and causing high resistance and slow turn over?

I see you've tried jump leads but they don't give a fantastic connection compared to a properly crimped and terminated cable Thumbs Up 2002 90 Td5 Station Wagon
1990 Vogue SE
Triumph Tiger Explorer 1200
Td5 90 Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic50767.html
Tdi 110 Thread https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic69562.html
RRC Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic54492.html
Instagram http://www.instagram.com/george_grafton
Post #713572 20th Jun 2018 10:50pm
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pj2106



Member Since: 20 Dec 2012
Location: Huntingdon AKA The Shire
Posts: 1500

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Stornoway Grey
Stick24v across it see if that helps 2008 110 2.4 XS Utility (Hagrid)
2002 90 TD5 Hardtop (Sully) Sold
1998 300TDi D1 (Billy) Sold
Post #713575 20th Jun 2018 11:31pm
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nickburt



Member Since: 26 Apr 2018
Location: Wallasey
Posts: 26

United Kingdom 
grafty99 wrote:
Have you tried a new positive feed from battery to starter? It could have broken down and causing high resistance and slow turn over?

I see you've tried jump leads but they don't give a fantastic connection compared to a properly crimped and terminated cable Thumbs Up


No, must admit, not made up new leads yet - but have tried other leads. 1986, 127, ex Fire Tender and Ambulance
Post #713578 20th Jun 2018 11:43pm
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