 | Home > Td5 > Unusual start problem, any ideas from the Td5 guru's |
 
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| JWL Member Since: 26 Oct 2011 Location: Hereford Posts: 3443   
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I jumped in my Td5 this morning and it wouldn't fire up. Yes it was cold but it has been colder and just the normal cranking wouldn't get it to fire, ent through a purge sequence and still ouldn't go. The pump was sounding like normal, no tone changes to signyfy any leaks or air in the system but had me stumped. Eventually, trying had dropped the battery voltage too low so out with a slave battery and tried again but this time in a little bit of frustration I had my foot on the accelerator and it fired into life.
I left it running while I did a few jobs along with a couple of short trips so it had been running for an hour and a half so not concerned about the battery, did some visiting and a couple of hours later we back to the same situation. Gave it a purge again, no difference but fired up with full throttle again. Went home and put new injector washers and seals in as there has been a few indicators such as the oil level has crept up a little and I could occasionally get a whiff of diesel from the oil filler. Result? Not a lot of change on starting but it does run a little better. Tomorrow I'm going to renew the starter solonoid contacts as I did notice a couple of times that when cranking there was some hesitation when cranking, allmost felt like it had got to a point of hydrauloc but I think more in the fact that there had been an interruption in the cranking circuit leaving the starter engaged then restarting the motor under a greater load. As soon as it's started it'll run as sweet as a nut, no hunting or hesitation when revving up so I don't have any thoughts to anything else bar what happens under cranking, I might swop over the relays under the seat before doing much else in case they might be "faltering" when cranking. The thing that has me stumped is the thing about it only firing with the throttle flat to the floor, when it does start it does so revving up. |
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28th Nov 2017 9:29pm |
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| grafty99 Member Since: 15 Aug 2012 Location: North Devon Posts: 4785  
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Td5s are quite voltage sensitive, if the starter solenoid is playing up it may be causing excessive current draw. Also if you crank with full throttle applied after 10 engine revolutions the ECU pumps more fuel in. I reckon change the solenoid and see if that cures it before going deeper
 2002 90 Td5 Station Wagon
1990 Vogue SE Triumph Tiger Explorer 1200 Td5 90 Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic50767.html Tdi 110 Thread https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic69562.html RRC Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic54492.html Instagram http://www.instagram.com/george_grafton |
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29th Nov 2017 4:23pm |
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| geobloke Member Since: 06 Nov 2012 Location: Nottinghamshire Posts: 4410
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Hi JWL. Have you got access to any diagnostics gear? Would be interested to know if the dreaded topside switch is giving you problems...
You problems sound very much like mine before my ECU gave up the ghost... |
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29th Nov 2017 4:28pm |
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| gazman Member Since: 17 Aug 2015 Location: Liverpool Posts: 652 
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try parking on a hill and next time it does it bump start it. If it fires up your starter is in its way out. They spin ok but can cause noise which effects the CPS and stops the injectors from firing. 2014 - current ..... 2003 defender td5 90 (my car)
2009 - current .... 2005 zx10r |
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29th Nov 2017 8:15pm |
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| JWL Member Since: 26 Oct 2011 Location: Hereford Posts: 3443
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Well, had to do the solonoid replacement a bit quicker than I hoped for, I went in to our local Co-Op and it wouldn't even "click" I had power through the ignition feed wire when in the cranking position plus power to the lead from the battery so it could only be the solonoid.
Got it started with a hammer blow to the solonoid and put a new set of contacts and plunger in and..................... no damned difference! Checked the battery terminals, good. Relays under the seat, click at the right time, no dropping out when cranking, no oil to speak of in the red plug. No "bouncing needles" on the dashboard clocks when cranking. The pump sounds like it allways does, no sudden noise changes or sounds of bubbling or air escaping along with no tell tale weeps on the diesel pipes. I'm stumped to say the least. The Nanocom didn't come up with anything, the usual air con gumph that isn't even fitted etc. I might just swop over the cranking sensor as I've got one anyway plus look again at the solonoid as it still requires assistance every so often with a tapping stick, when I put the new one in I didn't notice anything out of the ordinary. I've got a new Mahle diesel filter that I might pop on tomorrow but I'm convinced it's an electrical phenomenon. |
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29th Nov 2017 8:23pm |
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| gazman Member Since: 17 Aug 2015 Location: Liverpool Posts: 652
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have you tried bump starting it? as I mentioned before a starter motor on it's way out can cause spiking and arcing which confuses the crank position sensor. I've known a few be effected by it and be problematic off the key. 2014 - current ..... 2003 defender td5 90 (my car)
2009 - current .... 2005 zx10r |
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30th Nov 2017 5:06am |
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| gazman Member Since: 17 Aug 2015 Location: Liverpool Posts: 652
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have you tried bump starting it? as I mentioned before a starter motor on it's way out can cause spiking and arcing which confuses the crank position sensor. I've known a few be effected by it and be problematic off the key. 2014 - current ..... 2003 defender td5 90 (my car)
2009 - current .... 2005 zx10r |
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30th Nov 2017 5:06am |
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| JWL Member Since: 26 Oct 2011 Location: Hereford Posts: 3443
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I know what you're saying about bump starting, just never in a position to be able to do that
 This morning it started to crank and stopped as if the ignition switch wire was interuppted then no action from the key just a dull click. Underneath and a tap from the hammer and away it went. I'm off in a minute to get back underneath and double check the solonoid and connections plus earths. I might just tap another wire into the ignition circuit to check that when it stops cranking on the key I can put the new wire to power to see if cranking resumes, that would then point at a problem with the ignition switch circuit. That's then pointing at anything from the ignition barrel to relays, immobiliser etc |
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30th Nov 2017 10:40am |
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| JWL Member Since: 26 Oct 2011 Location: Hereford Posts: 3443
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All sorted!!!!
Starter motor off again today and did a proper bench test and it wasn't working all the time so opened it up and it was absolutely full of crap Got it all cleaned out, refitted and it's working like a good un |
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30th Nov 2017 4:01pm |
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| grafty99 Member Since: 15 Aug 2012 Location: North Devon Posts: 4785
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Nice one
2002 90 Td5 Station Wagon
1990 Vogue SE Triumph Tiger Explorer 1200 Td5 90 Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic50767.html Tdi 110 Thread https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic69562.html RRC Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic54492.html Instagram http://www.instagram.com/george_grafton |
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30th Nov 2017 4:08pm |
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| geobloke Member Since: 06 Nov 2012 Location: Nottinghamshire Posts: 4410
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Nicely done that man |
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30th Nov 2017 4:29pm |
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| gazman Member Since: 17 Aug 2015 Location: Liverpool Posts: 652
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great news 2014 - current ..... 2003 defender td5 90 (my car)
2009 - current .... 2005 zx10r |
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1st Dec 2017 6:22am |
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| JWL Member Since: 26 Oct 2011 Location: Hereford Posts: 3443
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Bit of an update on this post. Just before Christmas the same problems started to occour again, took the starter off again and stripped it down and as I'd found my impact driver things were a little easier. On closer inspection two of the four brushes were right at the end of their limit and the other two weren't far behind. Put it back together for now and it lasted another couple of days but all that ended up happening was that it suffered a dead short.
I ended up having to source another starter motor, I went for one from a breaker that way I was sure it was a genuine one and it's a safe gamble that it would have done less miles than mine. I've now got the replacement time from getting underneath, swopping them over and crawling back out, including the nasty little blighter of the 15mm nut at the back, down to less than 15 minutes
At least I won't have to push start it again this year |
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31st Dec 2017 10:47pm |
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| familymad Member Since: 13 Dec 2011 Location: Bucks Posts: 3481  
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Yey!! 1951 80" S1 2.0
1995 110 300TDI 1995 90 300TDI |
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31st Dec 2017 11:07pm |
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