 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Output Shaft |
 
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| lohr500 Member Since: 14 Sep 2014 Location: Skipton Posts: 1319   
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I'm not sure that the shaft actually breaks in the sense of snapping. More that the splines wear to such a point that the outer cup just spins round without transferring motion to the intermediate shaft.
I'm sure I have read reports of repeat failures even with the splines greased and a suggestion that the problem may be due to a slight misalignment of the housings. All in all, a bad design it would seem. As per above, I wonder if there have been any reported failures with the Ashcroft conversion? |
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15th Jul 2017 3:41pm |
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| kbf1981 Member Since: 22 Feb 2015 Location: Manchester Posts: 183
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Would changing engine / gearbox fix it? E.g. if you really wanted to over enginer a solution, could you do an LS3 auto box swap and not have risk of the issue popping up?
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17th Jul 2017 6:04pm |
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| LandRoverAnorak Member Since: 17 Jul 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 11324
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Yes, in the same way as buying a Toyota instead would... Darren
110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia |
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17th Jul 2017 8:16pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17466 
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Yes, perhaps unsurprisingly if you don't have the shaft you won't be troubled with it failing! It is a rather expensive solution, however, and you will still have the other driveline failure modes. |
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17th Jul 2017 9:04pm |
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| lightning Member Since: 23 Apr 2009 Location: High Peak, Derbyshire Posts: 2870
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Just fit the Ashcroft modified part, and then forget about it, because it will never fail again.
Seems a no brainer to me. Although easy for me to say l suppose, as l could afford the cost of having it done. |
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21st Jul 2017 3:15pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17466
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When I hear a credible report of someone who has had a shaft fail, and subsequently run over 200,000 miles without problems on an Ashcroft shaft without further problems, I'll accept the statement above.
I don't doubt the efficacy of the Ashcroft shaft but I haven't yet heard of one that has done a high enough mileage to substantiate that claim. I don't say that there aren't any, only that I haven't heard of any. |
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21st Jul 2017 3:57pm |
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| lightning Member Since: 23 Apr 2009 Location: High Peak, Derbyshire Posts: 2870
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The originals are failing in as little as 20,000 miles due to lack of oil. The shaft has no facility to get any oil apart from what is applied during assembly.
As the Ashcroft modification adds a constant lubricating facility to what is exactly the same part, l would be fairly confident that it would be the end of the problem. |
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21st Jul 2017 9:57pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17466
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There's more to the problem than simply lubrication, I think. There are some that fail in under 5k miles, and others that are fine after 200k miles. I believe that there are lubrication, alignment, and materials spec issues.
When I meet someone with a 200k miles Ashcroft conversion, then I'll be convinced. |
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21st Jul 2017 10:08pm |
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| Pickles Member Since: 26 May 2013 Location: Melbourne Posts: 3786  
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I tend to agree with Blackwolf. Ours failed at 40,000K, and very easy ks they were too, so I reckon if ours went, there'd be a good chance that many others would too. Luckily ours was under warranty, & the replacement shaft was greased with the correct stuff.
If I had a late model Puma, and the shaft hadn't already failed, I'd be having it checked, maybe at the next service etc,...might cost a few bob, but let me tell you, it'd be a lot more preferable to getting "stranded", which is definitely not a nice experience. Pickles. |
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21st Jul 2017 10:41pm |
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| doublea Member Since: 12 Jul 2011 Location: Aberdeenshire Posts: 495  
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Mmmm. Should I fork out for an Ashcroft now, and when mine fails get land rover to fit it instead of their own flawed part, then sell the standard land rover parts to Ashcroft for modification and selling on? Bit like reconditioning exchange but in the wrong order. Or just ask Ashcroft to send them back modified for our other defender! Both of our 2016 defenders had the blue gunge coming out of the transfer box vent, maybe they will last a little longer. There must be dozens, if not hundreds of premature output shaft failures. My sister's 2013 90 output shaft failed at 22000 miles. Mrs Doublea's 2013 90 was ok, but it had only covered 10000 miles when we sold it. Time for a poll on here? Surely land rover should recognise this as a design flaw and offer a more permanent solution or extended warranty. Audi increased the warranty on the B7 model RS4 "DRC" suspension from 3 to 5 years on account of the failure rate, albeit on a quiet basis/unofficial basis. Current Steeds: 2015 110 UW in Grasmere Green 2003 BMW F650 the Hack 2000 Elise 1992 Ducati 888 (no longer in bits, yahoo) 1990 TDR 250 (in bits again) 1988 TDR 250 (no longer in bits) and for sale |
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22nd Jul 2017 12:01am |
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| Fifth Horseman Member Since: 08 Mar 2011 Location: Lanarkshire Posts: 326
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Mines failed twice now during my ownership at intervals of approximately 20K miles (and I strongly suspect it had failed and been replaced just before I bought it), at the last failure the shaft was replaced with the Ashcroft modified unit. That was about 16K miles ago, TBH I am not completely confident that it is a complete 'cure' but time (and milage) will tell.
Times like this I wish I hadn't sold my '07 Puma - 87K miles and no shaft problems (but one cutch replacement) |
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22nd Jul 2017 8:07am |
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| proloForêt Member Since: 16 Mar 2017 Location: Montereau Posts: 248  
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I can not in this instance of yours feel that other than the multiple shaft failures is a symptom of a greater problem. Alignment of the things?
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22nd Jul 2017 8:56am |
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| Landumph Member Since: 07 Sep 2013 Location: Mendip Hills Posts: 28  
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Just had a conversation with JLR Customers Services after I emailed them about the imminent failure of my output shaft.
My vehicle is 2011 model year with 25000 miles, orange dust all over the transmission (I attached photos) I was informed that JLR will not be offering any financial assistance as I have not had my vehicle serviced at a main dealer ( used local independent who is on their list but not approved) and the mileage is not high enough for a 7 year old vehicle. Now I know why I've had to have a new clutch, new rear half shafts and a new rear diff (all under warranty) I'm not driving far enough!! What a load of ..... I'm going to fix, flog it and buy a Toyota, I'm fed up with Land Rover and their crap cars! There rant over.... |
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28th Jul 2017 12:20pm |
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| Landumph Member Since: 07 Sep 2013 Location: Mendip Hills Posts: 28
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No, I've just been looking at a Jeep, I'll get one of those because they understand their heritage unlike Land Rover's design guru, lets make 'em all look the same McGovern
Sorry, I've just realised how annoyed I am  |
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28th Jul 2017 1:19pm |
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