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| bpman Member Since: 21 May 2008 Location: Oslo Posts: 8069  
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hi Surrey Rover,
You may well have a point. like you, I have had a number of Land Rovers and no real problems, however you just don't know what's around the corner and with a nanocom/bbs or whatever you may be able to spot a fault before the warranty runs out, or something related breaks .. bit of a pandora's box |
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29th Jan 2011 4:54pm |
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| K9F Member Since: 12 Nov 2009 Location: Bournemouth Posts: 9610  
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Many people in the 'pursuit' of individuality and performance increases together with tweeks such as EGR blanking would like to know at the first opprtunity if something is wrong (myself included) and what the fault is down to and also if it can be readily rectified without the inconvenience of Land Rover assist if you're under warranty or expensive repair costs if you're not! Driving round blissfully ignorant of a fault that could possibly deteriorate into something very expensive is not my ideal form of motoring! Each to their own but early detection and prevention must surely be better than ignorance?? Especially as fault code detection and interpretation can be gained relatively cheaply nowadays!! If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!
Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!! |
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29th Jan 2011 6:21pm |
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| mse Member Since: 06 Apr 2008 Location: UK Posts: 5076 
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There are advantages when you can clear faults and replace parts without needing a dealer Mike
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29th Jan 2011 10:49pm |
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| BigMike Member Since: 13 Jul 2010 Location: Lancashire Posts: 2253
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Plus if you're away on a long trip and or in a remote location and your engine management light comes on, i want to know whats going on
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29th Jan 2011 11:17pm |
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| K9F Member Since: 12 Nov 2009 Location: Bournemouth Posts: 9610
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Hear hear!!
'Nuff said I think, coupled together with my quote of 'Each to their own!' I think this thread may be done and dusted!! Hopefully!  If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!
Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!! |
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30th Jan 2011 1:26am |
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| Surrey Rover Member Since: 20 Dec 2010 Location: Surrey Posts: 360 |
Not trying to upset the apple cart K9F more understand why people want them and use them and I am not sure why you want this thread closed so quickly? I guess this proves to me at least that maybe the Defender is losing it's way (or has lost it). There was a time that you could head off into the nether regions with mechanical knowledge and a prepared truck. Now you need a computer to enter into these remote and harsh environments (a well known combination, harsh environments and IT!) and someone on the end of the phone to help diagnose the faults or another computer with them noted down on to tell you what they mean. It would be sods law the computer/s went down prior to needing it and then your mechanical knowledge is not worth anything. I am keen to learn if I am missing some cool stuff though other than fault codes so if the thread does live it would be good to know other real world use cases. 
Each to their own but given that the Defender has forged it's global reputation on simplicity making it a complex beast seems to be at odds to what it's all about. Still it's progress I guess! |
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30th Jan 2011 6:59am |
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| Zagato Site Supporter Member Since: 08 Jan 2011 Location: Billingshurst West Sussex Posts: 5013
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The Puma engine and it's low emissions was necessary to keep the Defender in production of course, there is no getting away from electronics in modern engines.
With regards to expeditions to remote areas specialists advice if you havn't a clue about the electronics etc is still to go for a Tdi or Td5 as your next best option. You can still buy new Defenders with a Tdi unit of course and Turner Engineering remanufactured Tdi's are still flowing out of the work shops
You now have a choice which you didn't have before. Using a Defender as a car daily and on motorways etc many would choose the Puma but if you were in the middle of nowhere without mechanical assistance you would probably have a Tdi. Loads of people put completely different engines in to suit their needs and wants, that's the great about the Defender you can do this Don't like it, rip it out and stick something else in, Nene will do it for you! One of the partners of Nene ordered a new 2010 doublecab but the engine was a rough one  so he has put in a TDv6 or 8 in it something with real oomph anyway........ |
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30th Jan 2011 8:27am |
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| K9F Member Since: 12 Nov 2009 Location: Bournemouth Posts: 9610
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 All driven with true grit, determination, bullwhip in hand, hat on head and a cheroot dangling from the corner of the mouth!
Banter aside I would have assumed the answer was pretty obvious! It is not that I wish this thread closed but the fact a simple search before posting would have given you the answer you sought! Run some of the diagnostic tool tradenames through the search facility and there's enough posts to last you a day at least! With technological advancements came a myriad of sensitive electronic monitoring devices! The Puma is a sensitive beast and the fault code download available from Dgardel's site (thanks as ever Dgardel  ) runs into 97 pages and if memory serves me right about 1,500 codes, many of which will send your engine into 'limp mode!' I find it comforting that so much of the vehicle is monitored the downside (possibly) is the more that is monitored the more likely it is that sooner or later a MIL light will illuminate on you....invariably at the most inconvenient time ot location! For a little over £100 you can buy in to the capability of reading and resetting these codes!
Can you now see the point perhaps? If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!
Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!! Last edited by K9F on 30th Jan 2011 8:57am. Edited 1 time in total |
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30th Jan 2011 8:51am |
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| party monkey Member Since: 31 Dec 2010 Location: Oxon. Posts: 1311  
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Hi Surrey Rover,
I asked a similar type of question recently, see http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic5167.html I'm a complete layman in all of this and whilst I only have the td5 engine, I do see the value in this kit going forward. Whilst in warranty, I'd personally not bother and rely on the LR system to deal with you (that's what you've paid for after all )
Outside of warranty though, I can see a huge value in being able to quickly ascertain whether the fault is minor or something that needs looking at sharpish. Whilst I may not be able to deal with the fault myself, at least I can go into the local garage and tell them what is wrong. Hopefully saves time/effort/money and potential to be BS'd into paying more than I need to
I suspect too that perhaps it is of greater value on the PUMA engines than the Td5's but I'm gonna get one on the basis that the kit will do both, if I ever upgrade to a puma in the future. Zagato sums it up perfectly - Landy's are 'interchangeable' to suit the purpose. If you don't want electronics, you don't have to have them. Jon - 110 td5 [sold]. Currently Defenderless. |
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30th Jan 2011 8:55am |
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| Glynparry25 Member Since: 16 Feb 2009 Location: Miserable Midlands Posts: 3015  
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I think this is the point nowadays. All the vehicles we use in Afghanistan are now ECU control/ diagnostics. There were a couple of instances that happened out there where the 10 year mechanic 'has worked out the problem' and it has nothing to do with what the computer says it is... 100% of the time who/ what do you think was right? At the end of the day it is swings and roundabouts... Remember, you don't have to have a diagnostics box to work on a Puma. It is only certain things that need it for. Personally the thought of finding a fault out in advance so you can order parts into the next town/ village before you get there or look under the bonnet is a bonus in my eyes. Glyn  |
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30th Jan 2011 9:01am |
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| BigMike Member Since: 13 Jul 2010 Location: Lancashire Posts: 2253
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SR, it's not about weakness in the defender, its about technology moving on, and the driver having access to the kind of tools only previously available to dealers. i'f i m in the middle of the moroccan desert and my engine light comes on, i want to know why since the reason will dicatate what action is taken. a few years ago these tools werent available to us, so it was a frantic call to a dealer, and if you were somewhere remote, you just had to pray it would be ok.
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30th Jan 2011 9:19am |
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| mse Member Since: 06 Apr 2008 Location: UK Posts: 5076
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I cant really add any more...but i will
All new cars are (infact all forms of automotive engineering with the exception of push bikes) involve some form of computing power now...its how we progress. Having your own diagnositc capability is just like having a set of spanners in a garage now. And running with that - how many people dont own tools?!! Doesnt stop them owning the car, but does increase their ownership costs. I loved the TDI - but I get so frustrated with "die hards" that cant move with the times...yes my 3.5l v8 was outstanding on carbs and injected...but i would have a 5l V8 and all the computers that go with it...its progression...you wouldnt have a 2l NA or TD now would you?! Its the same difference. The monitoring the engine does adds massive value to safeguarding it - but everything screws up (IT and Not) and sometimes this monitoring makes it faster to solve...other times it makes it stop any long term damage. Either way - would you not want the internet and go back to typewriters? No mobile phones? The point is these are progressions and improvements, just as the puma is on the 2l NA engine Mike |
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30th Jan 2011 10:36am |
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| Lorryman100 Member Since: 01 Oct 2010 Location: Here Posts: 2686 |
This is the reason I have one
http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic5125.html as it is an intermittent fault owning a diagnostic tool meant I could keep an eye on the Landy's systems looking for exactly this kind of fault developing. Chances are I could have put it into dealers numerous times and sod's law states the above would not have showed up on there diagnostics, meaning no problem with landy in dealers eyes. The fact I caught it meant it can be dealt with and will save me money in exorbitant fuel usage, until it happens again that is |
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30th Jan 2011 12:26pm |
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| alantd Member Since: 14 Dec 2008 Location: Northamptonshire Posts: 1513 
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I've just ordered the Nanocom from BBS (who were very helpful by the way and offered a forum discount).
I will now 'discover' all the problems that I havent been aware of (and didnt need to be) and will run paranoid from here on in
Basically, it gives me the opportunity to ask loads of really basic questions to the experts here  One that started out as a 2.4 TDCi 110 XS
+ New Defender 110 First Edition |
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31st Jan 2011 9:41pm |
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