 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Air box mod help please. |
 
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| newhue Member Since: 28 Apr 2014 Location: Brisbane Posts: 351  
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As far as I'm aware the air box mod is cutting the dust separator (fixed fan) bit out of the air box. I believe its there to separate the air and water vapour to prolong the filters integrity. I believe its just get stuck into it with a Dremel cutting tool or Stanley knife.
Given you have a snorkel it should have a big fat air flow to the air box, but if it doesnt then I used this on my standard raised LR air intake, eliminating all joins in the pipework. I still cant tell any major difference in performance, but the circumference is 3 time standard and now I know it is completely seamless from intake to filter. http://www.nuggetstuff.com/defenderairbox.html My Defender and travels |
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19th Apr 2015 7:31pm |
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| Alive Tuning Member Since: 01 Mar 2010 Location: Louth Posts: 610 
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I've not seen any evidence of this mod working on the dyno, on a 190hp puma. It was the same power and torque, before and after!
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19th Apr 2015 9:22pm |
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| newhue Member Since: 28 Apr 2014 Location: Brisbane Posts: 351
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Alive, I am not doubting you, but is it the hi clone bit, bigger hose bit, or seamless pipe from snorkel head to air box. I have always concluded no matter how fast or how much air you stuff down a pipe, it all stops and is passed through the filter at the rate the filter allows. My Defender and travels
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20th Apr 2015 7:51am |
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| Alive Tuning Member Since: 01 Mar 2010 Location: Louth Posts: 610
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I understand that it could be seen as a potential restriction, but its been put there for a very good reason!
Lets say your cruising down a motorway/highway in the pouring rain. Theres a lot of spray from other vehicles, which your induction system will draw in. The water separator (hiclone type thing) causes a cyclonic effect to the incoming air flow, flinging the heavy water particles to the outside walls of the tunnel, where it is then allowed to drain out of the air box. Without this water separator, this damp air will be drawn into the airbox and will saturate within the paper air filter. Some of the moisture will be evaporated by the passing air flow through the filter, but that ultimately this is determined by how much water vapour is in the air and how long you are exposed to it. Kind Regards, Gary. |
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20th Apr 2015 8:22am |
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| newhue Member Since: 28 Apr 2014 Location: Brisbane Posts: 351
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 thanks
I also like the much poo poo'd standard raised air intake, well the head of it anyway. Air is drawn from the underside and the rear of the head, in through the tubed body which is cut 25mm higher than the underside vent, thus greatly reducing water, leaves, bugs and so on. My Defender and travels |
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20th Apr 2015 8:47am |
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| Anderzander Member Since: 08 Feb 2011 Location: Lancashire Posts: 1000
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I think was Ian - from IRB who said he got an extra 11nm of torque fom removing the HiClone. I don't remember the details / but a search on here would reveal it I think.
I wonder about the water separation thing - plenty of air boxes don't have it. The D2 Td5 airbox has it whilst the V8 one doesn't. It just makes me think that the requirement for it to be there can't be critical ...... When you said it made no difference - was that, no difference anywhere on the graph ? |
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20th Apr 2015 9:32am |
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| munch90 Member Since: 26 Oct 2013 Location: guildford Posts: 3558 
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any damp getting on the paper element will give you more restriction then the pipe work ever would
often seen filters that have got wet/damp and have been sucked upwards towards intake to be honest im not completely convinced about the air box modding , I think you may get a slight restriction when you first put your foot down hard because of the distrance the air has to move , once the air ins moving the amount of restriction may tail off of course the amount of restriction will depend on how much air the engine needs , if you drive hard and full revs then yes it may be better , BUT for normal driving is it really needed looking in the air box I would say as for performance its not the best set up by no means , but it does the job its meant to do the fan like thing has 8 blades and does look a restriction , maybe removing 4 of the blades may help and may still do the job its intended to do , personally I wouldn't remove completely when we used to built a lot of race/fast road engines we would get people in saying what spec they wanted etc , what they had read is best , my answer was you may as well have a pooh before going out , it will make you lighter and that will give you as much gain as that mod you want done ! 11nm is not a lot really , you may find folding your mirrors in would give you the same if you was talking full race engine in race car then every bit would help if everything else was as good as it could be driveabilty is more important than anything , no point getting a car to do 150mph you if can only get there by full revs in each gear , better to get 125mph relaxed dyno testing isn't everything , any engine/set up needs to be driven/raced to be 100% |
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20th Apr 2015 10:39am |
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| tatra805 Member Since: 16 Aug 2011 Location: Dolany Posts: 436  
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hmm
funny the airbox mod was advised to me by one of the 3 mappers (as he's not responding i take it he doesn't want to get in a discussion here so i leave his name out) Agree with a lot of things said just not on one point By coincidence i opened up my mantec RAI top this weekend by drilling a 60mm hole in the backside of it... I conclude 2 things from this: - no more hesitations in the rev range, it runs stable and linear to 3800 rpm now. - the draft felt even at idle at the 60mm hole is obvious, i would conclude that the original openings need more sucking to get the same amount of air in. I believe sucking needs energy which i translate into waste. Now not trying to be a wise-guy but i did some calculations before drilling the hole and i came to some nice findings - OEM pipe to turbo is able to just supply the necessary amount of air for the engine at max vacuum, being around 4300liters per minute, the restriction is the IC inlet diameter, which again is nicely "spot on" calculated at max boost. - Cotton airfilter is multifactor over dimensioned for this flow, which is good, normal and to no concern - The OEM piping to air inlet is just-just able to supply the air BUT this without internal losses due to length, shape changes from round to oval to square etc - The mantec RAI openings are not sufficient and 30-40% too small compared to the turbo inlet hose (all taken from round diameter surface values, not considering the losses of "multiple irregular holes" I know my calculations are very "general" and done by using generic calculators, so i guess if taking in account all factors it can only be worse (more bends, irregularities, shape differences, turbulences etc) I see the results of "need" (engine) and "supply"(piping) of my calculations: - Too close to reality measurements to be way off - Too close to reality to be a coincidence, it comes to me as someone was calculating min requirements and then due to real life place restrictions forgetting about losses due to shapes and forms ending up with a theoretical correct system which in real life is X% off. (result asthmatic puma) My personal opinion and reaction to this (don't want to start a discussion as i do not have the arms (dyno) to factual defend myself, so just for what the 2cents are worth) is to open up all as much as possible so to avoid or compensate any possible losses till past the filter and before the MAF (I want to maintain the dia/airspeed at that point so the MAF readings are correct) Each step i took in that direction had an immediate result (not placebo although i do like to exaggerate my own results  )
just my 2cents in all
Edit: just to make the picture complete on my setup, i do have the airbox mod done and run 90mm ID piping to the mantec snorkel inlet which is fed through a fixed plate with 80mmID pipe (similar to the pictured kit in this thread but locally made and a bit different) |
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20th Apr 2015 1:15pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20567
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I'm happy I did mine, just makes sense even if it doesn't translate into figures.
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20th Apr 2015 3:14pm |
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| LR90XS2011 Member Since: 05 Apr 2011 Location: bickenhill Posts: 3650 
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mine is standard other than the air box mod and I'm convinced it made the engine run better, as others have said several tuners recommend it before a remap DEFENDER 90 TDCI XS,
I hope everyone is well and your land rovers make you happy |
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20th Apr 2015 7:31pm |
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| fatman Member Since: 14 Jan 2014 Location: Athens-Greece Posts: 126  
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+2 pumas here in Greece,definatly not placebo effect!
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21st Apr 2015 4:55am |
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| newhue Member Since: 28 Apr 2014 Location: Brisbane Posts: 351
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I left mine in after the LR mechanic told me why it's in there, similar to Alives explanation. The truck runs just fine with it there but I'm not after every Kw I can extract out of it either. It also doesn't surprise me manufacturers build a motor with "just enough" in the piping dimensions to make it work at max compacity 'just". Anything over is a wast of budget to their standard product.
I have however noticed anything Diesel powered, and perhaps post 07 have hi cyclone technology on air boxes. Mainly medium trucks but also large trucks will have the whole air intake as hi clones, so there must be something in it as many manufacturers doing it. I guess it could also be just a fad, just look at how many business got on to the "air ram head" on a snorkel. Ramming that air into the motor was all the rage for while, and who's to say if any did one ounce of testing beside thinking of what should make sense. My Defender and travels |
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21st Apr 2015 5:08am |
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| tuesdayfox Member Since: 23 Jun 2013 Location: Sydney,OZ Posts: 129 
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I did mine after reading tatra805's post.
the whole OEM duct was removed and replaced with a silicon hose from snorkel to air box. the airbox end is cone-shaded with diameter increased from 3' to 4' Power gain? I dont care. I did my air box mod for safer wading and I still have the water separtor, now on the top end of my snorkel pipe (top spin prefilter Martin |
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21st Apr 2015 5:30am |
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| pannawonica Member Since: 21 Nov 2010 Location: Clackline Western Australia Posts: 568
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[quote="fatman"]+2 pumas here in Greece,definatly not placebo effect![/quote] plus one!
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24th Apr 2015 4:07am |
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