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ken

Member Since: 18 Aug 2009
Location: Banging Birds with my bitches !!
Posts: 4328

Interesting Speed Related Article

Bigger pick-ups that have recently started to arrive on the UK market could have to abide by light commercial vehicle speed limits.

Leasing company Arval says models such as the most popular double cab derivatives of the latest Ford Ranger, Toyota Hilux and Volkswagen Amarok can exceed the legal 2,040kg unladen weight classification for dual-purpose vehicles, which means they are no longer covered by passenger car speed limits.

This suggests that they should, in fact, not travel faster than 50mph on single carriageways and 60mph on dual carriageways – although the standard urban 30mph and 70mph motorway limits continue to apply. This is of potential concern because these vehicles are often bought as a fleet alternative to a regular passenger car.

Eddie Parker, commercial vehicle consultant at Arval UK said: “Pick-ups sold in the UK have been getting bigger and heavier for several years, driven by demand for increased payload from both fleet and domestic buyers.

“The result of this is that, at least technically, they have become light commercial vehicles in the eyes of the law and should be sticking to the lower speed limits.

“Confusingly, there is also a possibility that individual examples of the same model might fall either side of the 2,040kg limit because of the fitting of optional equipment such as pick-up tops that are needed for some fleet applications.

“It is definitely a grey area and one of which fleet managers operating pick-ups should be aware.”

Parker added that Arval had contacted the DfT about the issue, who had conceded that the classification of some pick-ups may need to change in the future but that this could require a legal challenge to take place.

He said: “Our general advice would be that, where there is any doubt, it is probably best to advise your pick-up drivers to adopt the lower limits. There is little to be gained from potentially having to fight a test case if one of your vehicles is prosecuted for exceeding the speed limit.”

18th Aug 2016 2:12pm

JOW240725

Member Since: 04 May 2015
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 7905

2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Orkney Grey

Where does the 110 SW stand on speed limits? I believe on the V5 its classed as a light good vehicle to benefit from lower road tax, but never thought about speed limits! Not sure i want to ask this

James
MY2012 110 2.2TDCi XS SW Orkney Grey - http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic43410.html
MY1990 110 200TDi SW beautifully faded Portofino Red - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post743641.html#743641
MY1984 90 V8 Slate Grey - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post744557.html#744557
Instagram @suffolk_rovers

18th Aug 2016 2:23pm

Happyoldgit

Member Since: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 3471

2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Corris Grey

http://pickupand4x4.co.uk/know-your-limits Steve.
Owned numerous Land Rover vehicles of all shapes and sizes over the decades.
Current Defender: A non tarts hand-bagged Puma 110 XS USW.

[Insert something impressive here such as extensive list of previous Land Rovers or examples of your prestigeous and expensive items, trinkets, houses, bikes, vehicles etc]

http://forums.lr4x4.com

I used to be Miserable ...but now I'm ecstatic.

18th Aug 2016 2:43pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17382

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

JOW240725 wrote:
Where does the 110 SW stand on speed limits? I believe on the V5 its classed as a light good vehicle to benefit from lower road tax, but never thought about speed limits! Not sure i want to ask this

This question is asked time after time after time after time on this forum, and has been done to death.

Provided that they have selectable or permanent all-wheel-drive*, All standard Landrover Defender models are, based on manufacturer's figures, under 2040kg ULW and are therefore legally "dual purpose vehicles" as defined by the Road Vehicles (Construction and use) Regulations 1986 (as amended). They are therefore subject to normal car speed limits.

If you have modified your Defender by adding permanently-atttached extras to the extend that its ULW is over 2045kg, you may want to slow down.

If you have a cherry-picker or similar, or a 6x6 conversion, or anything else that takes the unladen weight over 2040kg, then you will be subject to light goods vehicle limits.

*If you have a 4x2 vehicle such as one of the ex-RAF Series 1 or 2 vehicles, or a very light 6x4 conversion, then it is NOT a dual purpose vehicle because it doesn't have full or part time AWD and is subject to lower limits.

18th Aug 2016 3:10pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17382

Happyoldgit wrote:
http://pickupand4x4.co.uk/know-your-limits

That article is misleading since it only mentions half the definition of a DPV and is rather specific to pick-up trucks. No mention is made of the all-important full- or part-time all wheel drive provision.

For example, a single cab 4x2 pickup truck will have a lower speed limit than the 4x4 version of the same vehicle. A double cab 4x2 pickup truck may however be a DPV whilst the single cab version is not.

18th Aug 2016 3:14pm

JOW240725

Member Since: 04 May 2015
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 7905

18th Aug 2016 3:41pm

Happyoldgit

Member Since: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 3471

blackwolf wrote:
Happyoldgit wrote:
http://pickupand4x4.co.uk/know-your-limits

That article is misleading since it only mentions half the definition of a DPV and is rather specific to pick-up trucks. No mention is made of the all-important full- or part-time all wheel drive provision.

For example, a single cab 4x2 pickup truck will have a lower speed limit than the 4x4 version of the same vehicle. A double cab 4x2 pickup truck may however be a DPV whilst the single cab version is not.

Not disagreeing with you but the website title is a bit of a giveaway in terms of focus on pick-ups. Nor would I disagree about how many times the Defender v speed limit subject has been thrashed to death on here on numerous occasions - more even than that funny little ghost mount bracket under the Puma gearbox, rustproofing, clutches, headlamps & switches, intermediate shaft, clunks and clonks, drive member and half-shaft wear, what tyres look best, remaps ...you name it. Steve.
Owned numerous Land Rover vehicles of all shapes and sizes over the decades.
Current Defender: A non tarts hand-bagged Puma 110 XS USW.

[Insert something impressive here such as extensive list of previous Land Rovers or examples of your prestigeous and expensive items, trinkets, houses, bikes, vehicles etc]

http://forums.lr4x4.com

I used to be Miserable ...but now I'm ecstatic.

18th Aug 2016 6:14pm

custom90

Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 20363

I'd have to agree with BW here, and HOG on different subjects.

In more simple terms there is a lot of difference between vehicjes loaded and not loaded.
Common sense, although not so common! Should tell people carrying large weights or towing etc to drop their speed off just a bit.
Just like towing, only unladen I wouldn't worry about it.

Chances are if you are driving slower with no trailer or excess load you'll get harassed from behind too.

18th Aug 2016 6:50pm

ken

Member Since: 18 Aug 2009
Location: Banging Birds with my bitches !!
Posts: 4328

Agree its been done to death however there are many new members who may or may not be aware of the rules

Even the .Gov is not clear

Anyhow what is this little bracket thingy on the gearbox ?

19th Aug 2016 5:20am

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17382

The forum does however have an excellent search facility!

I don't know about any bracket on the gearbox, that's a new one on me, but I can tell you about the bracket on the crossmember below the gearbox!

19th Aug 2016 7:30am

ken

Member Since: 18 Aug 2009
Location: Banging Birds with my bitches !!
Posts: 4328

Agreed BW however that search facility appears to be a dark art for some

19th Aug 2016 8:50am

Cupboard

Member Since: 21 Mar 2014
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 2971

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 HT Corris Grey

I'd never thought about it for a vehicle other than the Defender, but the old Navara is usually over the limit (especially if you fit a top), the new Navara is usually OK, the current Ranger is usually over the limit (definitely if you fit a top), Hilux seems OK (which is odd), the Amarok is usually over the limit...

I wonder how many people are actually aware of that?

Not only are the pickups less capable than the Defender in terms of maximum GTW they also weigh more. What are they doing with all the weight? Is that adding safety or something?

19th Aug 2016 8:50am

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17382

Most of the weight is probably steel body including progressive crumple zones and electrical gubbins now.

One of the interesting and debatable areas concerns what is and what is not included when determining "unladen weight". Generally, if an item is removable, it is not included. Spare wheels, vehicles tools, and fluids are specifically excluded, and I believe (and this in only my opinion) that easily removable items are similarly not included. For example, roofracks, canopies, etc.

Something like a roll cage or winch probably would be included however since it cannot easily be removed.

The excessive ULW and kerb weights of modern utility vehicles is a concern since it reduces the payload to levels that are almost useless. How many modern 4x4 double cap pick-ups have a 1-tonne payload?

19th Aug 2016 9:26am

Cupboard

Member Since: 21 Mar 2014
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 2971

I think a reasonable number of them to have decent payload, the Ranger is over 1t (but only when you're not towing a heavy trailer).
I do know that a Defender with that much in the back becomes extremely boats like, almost to the point of feeling like it's going to fall over. Driving our 110 HiCap which has a nominal payload of 1.1t and a bulk 900kg bag of sand plus half a dozen bags of cement and me (so slightly under the maximum assuming everything weighs what it should do) is not something I'd want to do for much further than the nearest builders' merchant straight home.

19th Aug 2016 11:52am

Bluest

Member Since: 23 Apr 2016
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 4209

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Java Black

The important thing, and what isn't clear to me, is what weight the authorities use when conducting enforcement. As far as I know the ULW isn't recorded anywhere is it? The V5 lists the mass in service, is that the same as ULW? Your very unlikely to be weighed as a result of a speed check, so what limit is applied to vehicles that are in this zone very close to the threshold? A guess would be that the mass in service is used, and if you think the ULW is different you'd have to argue it in court.

19th Aug 2016 1:24pm

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