 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > EGR Fault |
 
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| Stickman Member Since: 20 Jun 2016 Location: South West Posts: 23   
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I thought that I would share my finding regarding an EGR fault that I have got to the bottom of on my recently acquired 2007 2.4 Tdci defender. The fault was present when I purchased the vehicle - the previous owner was upfront about it as the MIL light was permanently illuminated.
I read the fault codes with a basic diagnostic device and P0404 was logged - I cleared this and then after three start cycles the light re-appeared. I researched the code which pointed towards the EGR being stuck closed. I removed the EGR valve - a fiddly job first time round as you are completely blind as to where the fixings are. I had hoped / expected to find the valve clogged up, but to my surprise it was very clean - this lead me to believe that the previous owner had got this far and cleaned it. The valve was date stamped 2012, so had clearly been replaced. To satisfy myself that the valve was operational I removed the gearbox cover to reveal the drive train. I rotated the gears by hand and the valve opened and then self closed due to a spring return system. Short of the motor being at fault it looked to be OK, so I re-greased the gears and put everything back together. Needless to say the fault remained! Next I checked / cleaned the MAF sensor, since this is what generates the inputs to control the EGR - still not fixed. I then de-coupled the EGR cooler from the manifold and valve, leaving the water pipes connected - I then checked / cleaned all of the tubes to make sure they weren't clogged / restricting the air flow, which they weren't. By this time I was getting a bit fed-up and was hankering after my faithful 300tdi Defender, which this new machine had replaced! Before blindly throwing money at it I wanted to be sure that the motor in the EGR valve was working, so out it came again (albeit easier second time round) I removed the gearbox casing and rotated the gears once more and it was at this point that I noticed that the pinion was rotating relative to the motor shaft - at last things started to make sense! I removed the motor and pulled the pinion off the shaft and to my surprise there was no flat on the shaft to locate it. I carefully drilled and tapped an M3 thread in the root between two teeth, filed a flat on the motor shaft and assembled the pinion and Loctited a grub screw against the flat to hold the pinion securely. I reassembled / refitted the valve and to my delight / relief the MIL automatically extinguished after three start cycles! The EGR valve can now be heard doing its self clean cycle on engine shut down. I know many people blank / restrict the EGR, but I was keen to understand what was wrong before modifying the system. This might possibly be helpful to others who are trying to solve the same problem. Last edited by Stickman on 29th Jun 2016 8:25pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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29th Jun 2016 5:03pm |
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| Stickman Member Since: 20 Jun 2016 Location: South West Posts: 23
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Hi,
I think that the pinion is simply a press fit onto the shaft and that the tolerances were not sufficient to maintain a grip. It is quite possible / likely that the increased torque required to actuate the valve due to a build up of deposits led to slippage / subsequent wear of the parts. I noticed that the valve was made in China, so I suspect that it is a pattern part rather that an OEM - which is disappointing since I see from the service history that it was replaced by Guy Salmon Land Rover. |
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29th Jun 2016 6:09pm |
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| Flyingfocrs Member Since: 12 Jan 2015 Location: Deepest darkest Aberdeenshire Posts: 155  
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Good work there, If I get the chance I might strip down the EGR valve I recently replaced and see if the issue is the same.
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29th Jun 2016 6:45pm |
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| Bluest Member Since: 23 Apr 2016 Location: Lancashire Posts: 4209 
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It's possibly still a genuine part. I know Bosch make some stuff out in China now. I bought some Bosch spark plugs proudly stamped as coming from the PRC. |
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29th Jun 2016 7:27pm |
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| Jukathy Member Since: 25 Jan 2015 Location: Berlin Posts: 170
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Wow. That's bad. I'd have Guy Salmon order a new part. If different, I'd take the new one and ask for refund 
If not the fault must be elsewhere. |
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29th Jun 2016 7:43pm |
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| Stickman Member Since: 20 Jun 2016 Location: South West Posts: 23
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Apologies for the poor spelling in my original post - I have just re-read it and felt compelled to edit one or two things!
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29th Jun 2016 8:31pm |
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| Borderrover Member Since: 03 Mar 2017 Location: Scotland Posts: 2 
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TDCI 2007 2.4 started with engine fault light and no power in top gear. Used my ODBD2 bluetooth dongle and app to find out unexpected pressures on EGR valve.
As the previous chap explained the EGR valve is a mother to remove. Anyway I expected to find the valve choked up with debri. As per the picture the plate had come off the shaft and was sat half way across the seat. Stripped the unit and peined the end of the shaft over to secure the plate. Engine was then running fine and making the funny noise at stopping which is expected with the EGR. Could not get rid of the fault light though. Ended up having to turn the engine off and ignition back on (not start the engine). Told the app to clear fault codes. Started the engine and all sweet. I have a blanking plate but don't really want to fit it and have a fault light all the time. It's an expensive beast to disable if you need to remap. I'm glad I didn't go to expense of replacing the valve. The quality is pretty poor. Anyway. Hope someone finds it useful in the future. 
 Click image to enlarge |
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15th Apr 2017 6:24am |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20367
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Horrible little things they are.
 $W33T $0U7H3RN $UG4R
🇬🇧🏴🏴🏴🇮🇪🇺🇸⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪 |
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15th Apr 2017 9:26am |
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| zsd-puma Member Since: 09 Aug 2016 Location: Kent Posts: 2720
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LR assemble complete vehicles in China (for the asian market). I wouldn't be surprised if they had parts made there these days, especially electronics. Being made in China doesn't mean it's rubbish, anymore than being made in Germany means it's any good. |
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15th Apr 2017 11:17am |
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| shropshiredefender Member Since: 05 Jun 2017 Location: Shropshire Posts: 834 
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Considering the price of an EGR valve and the fact that Egr failure seems common I bought a BAS2 RRC with an EGR patch. No more EGR problems and the addition of a power tune means I've got a Defender that will tackle long continental drives.
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5th Jun 2017 7:01pm |
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| B4Lamb Member Since: 21 Mar 2015 Location: Abergavenny, Wales Posts: 233  
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Now that is very interesting. I recently posted my annoyance at finding my EGR had stopped working after just 18 months from fitting a new one. ie. MIL on and same fault code and no chuga chuga cleaning cycle sound on engine off. I was led to believe they are not serviceable but clearly they are to a degree. I wished I'd kept the old one. Anyway I'll get this failed unit out and see if it has the same internal problem as you had found. It seems plausible as it's getting the right motor commands. I'll report back my findings. "You are never to old to learn something new" |
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13th Jun 2017 10:14pm |
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| B4Lamb Member Since: 21 Mar 2015 Location: Abergavenny, Wales Posts: 233
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I extracted the EGR and removed the front plastic cover (by levering out the metal surround tabs). This exposes the gearbox, motor end connections and the motor drive sprocket. All was good. The sprocket was not loose on the shaft as I was expecting so I applied 12 Vdc to the motor terminals after removing the two intermediate gears and the the motor spun fine. With the gears in place I turned the sprocket by hand to prove that the EGR valve opens ok and all good. The spring also returned it to the closed position. I measured the motor resistance and it's lowest value was about 6 ohms depending on the shaft position. Must be a brushed motor. Anyway, I noted that the means to get power to the motor is via two bronze colour, plated spring connectors in the plastic front cover that are supposed to grip the two spade terminals of the motor when the front is offered up. However when offering up the cover I was unable to detect a connection from the external plug pins. It was open circuit no matter how hard I pushed on the cover. I measured the depth of the spring contacts and they didn't seem to penetrative far enough to get a good contact with the motor spades. By bending the spring contacts with some long nose pliers I was able to get contact but I was not satisfied it would be reliable over time. So I drilled two holes, 3 mm in diameter, through the front cover exactly at the position of the spring contacts (drilling from the inside through the contact). I then soldered two tinned copper wires (1mm single strand) to the base of the spring contacts passing the ends of the wires through the holes in the cover. I then soldered two more wires to the spade terminals of the motor. I then offered up the front cover to the EGR passing the two motor wires through the spring contacts and on through the two drilled holes. I now had two wires protruding out of each of the two holes. I then soldered the tow wires together on the outside of the cover at each hole position cutting off the excess but leaving about 5 mm sticking out. I insulated these bare ends with some heat shrink tubing. I did a test with a 12V power supply to prove the EGR worked from the exposed motor connections and all was good. After re crimping the cover surround tabs back, gripping the sides in a vice and then tapping in the rolled tops into the grooves with a flat blade screwdriver I was satisfied I'd fixed my EGR valve.
On reassembly back onto the engine (what a pig of a job) a quick test round the block proved it was all working again with the Chugga Chugga cleaning cycle returned. I cleared the Fault codes and MIL light using my cheapo blue tooth OBD2 adapter and tablet app. I wonder how many EGR valves have been replaced that have similar minor faults that are repairable?? Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge "You are never to old to learn something new" |
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15th Jun 2017 5:40pm |
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| ian series 1 Member Since: 17 Nov 2014 Location: south Posts: 3127 
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Great post..
80" 80" 86" 88" 90"
Wanted, Forward Control Anything considered. |
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15th Jun 2017 6:41pm |
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| B4Lamb Member Since: 21 Mar 2015 Location: Abergavenny, Wales Posts: 233
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Thanks Ian. I'd like to look at a few other failed EGR valves of this type to see if there is a failure mode trend. If you can get a few more years out of them it seems worth it to me. "You are never to old to learn something new"
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15th Jun 2017 7:49pm |
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