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Landyphil

Member Since: 23 Jul 2012
Location: Lake District
Posts: 87

2003 Defender 110 Td5 USW Stornoway Grey

Wing top scoop - effectiveness?

Bit of an odd one but has anyone done any serious testing of wing top scoops? (I know that sounds like a juxtaposition but bear with me)

Having done just my pan in the last few weeks doing a refurb on the 110's bodywork it's now away for a while being painted so I've time to look at what goes back on.

Following one cold commute too many I wondered about what I could do to help air flow. Heat was no bother it was just flow.

I know that raising the pressure of air above normal static pressure via a scoop simply doesn't happen until you're going about 170mph+ which is unlikely....but reduction in vaccum presented to the heater fan could be possible.

So gambled on one of these cheap items just to see how it went:

Being a G4 Land Rover burdened it with the curse of wing top chequerplate so not every scoop would fit but this one was cheap and is already crazing in parts so I'm wondering if anyone has any improvement with others?

A mate of mine had a theory which sounds quite plausible that given the shape of the Defender at certain air speeds there will be quite the chuffin vortex on the bonnet with air travelling to some degree in the opposite direction and anyone with a Pre Puma bonnet driving in the wet has probably experienced the funky little static wave that can sit there and move around depending on speed.

This sort of ties in with feeling I get that up to about 50mph the scoop seems to have helped but after that it does sweet FA.

Of late I've seen a couple of late tidy Pumas with louvre type grills on both sides as well. I'll be more careful how I word this next bit....

Having never looked under a 2.2 bonnet I know there was some reshuffling to fit the DPF in without having to mount it underneath which would makes sense. Is there something relocated that needs a touch of cool air such as a fuel or EGR cooler on the RHside of the engine bay? Or they being fitted on both sides just for the sake of symmetry?

Either way I wonder if a louvre type grill, being closer to the surface of the wing would be less effected by vortices and work a touch better?

Thoughts, no matter how derisory are welcomed!

90XS Tdci John Eales
110 CSW G4 Edition
88" Series 3 Racer

6th Mar 2016 9:40am

GREENI

Member Since: 22 Aug 2010
Location: staffs
Posts: 10382

If I've ever bought a Defender with these on (2 or 3) they get thrown in the bin. I've had Easter eggs wrapped in better quality plastic.

(You did ask).

Your heater matrix isn't full of leaves n junk? check you're getting full power on the fan speed too.

Though in a nutshell, pre Puma Defender heaters aren't great.

6th Mar 2016 1:53pm

gazman

Member Since: 17 Aug 2015
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 652

I have kbx high force ones with mesh behind them and I've got to be honest I drive most of the time on the motorway and with everything sealed and taped I can trunk the fan off and get some flow at 60mph. Where as before hand I didn't.
So it must do something 2014 - current ..... 2003 defender td5 90 (my car)
2009 - current .... 2005 zx10r

6th Mar 2016 2:07pm

LR90XS2011

Member Since: 05 Apr 2011
Location: bickenhill
Posts: 3641

2011 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Galway Green

ditto the KBX ones no need for the fan as long as you are moving above about 30mph DEFENDER 90 TDCI XS,

I hope everyone is well and your land rovers make you happy

6th Mar 2016 5:29pm

EWS

Member Since: 29 Nov 2011
Location: Bristol
Posts: 156

ditto the KBX ones no need for the fan as long as you are moving above about 30mph plus and try with opening the side window an inch

6th Mar 2016 6:35pm

Cupboard

Member Since: 21 Mar 2014
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 2971

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 HT Corris Grey

Your problem is a cold TD5?
Granted the TD5's heater isn't as good as the Puma's, but our farm one still gets pretty toasty? There's certainly air movement with the fan on full. My niggle is that there is such a huge gap between low and high.

6th Mar 2016 7:46pm

Landyphil

Member Since: 23 Jul 2012
Location: Lake District
Posts: 87

Cheers for the reply.

I agree about the cheap plastic. You gets what you pay for!

Once the engine's warm there's plenty of warmth it's would just be nice to get a better flow generally especially when not on full chat as well!

I'll peruse the KBX ones Ta!

If I'm tempted or have time to experiment with gopro and ticker tape I'll post results up. 90XS Tdci John Eales
110 CSW G4 Edition
88" Series 3 Racer

7th Mar 2016 8:01am

jimbob7

Member Since: 06 Jul 2013
Location: uk
Posts: 2055

Absolute ZERO,could VERY easily cause LESS effectiveness.In moto GP (motorbikes) the MOST efficiant route is a 100% STRAIGHT thru the headstock into the airbox (the VERY most front part of the bike).Anything else casuse huge,MASSIVE losses. Pov.spec,ftw. 2006, 110,TD5.

Last edited by jimbob7 on 7th Mar 2016 1:00pm. Edited 1 time in total

7th Mar 2016 12:29pm

jimbob7

Member Since: 06 Jul 2013
Location: uk
Posts: 2055

You want to increase air flow thru a heater inflow?? Pov.spec,ftw. 2006, 110,TD5.

7th Mar 2016 12:30pm

Browny90

Member Since: 20 Jul 2015
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 183

2004 Defender 90 200 Tdi SW Stornoway Grey

I would sat the only benefit would be stopping the snow getting in... My 1986 90 is currently on a full rebuild, with new chassis, Paint etc.. Very much a hybrid, TD5 Chassis, tub & bulkhead with a 200TDI and LT77 GB Painted in Stornoway Grey

2 years off the road, but getting close to completion now

7th Mar 2016 12:34pm

RED-DOT

Member Since: 29 Jun 2009
Location: stirling
Posts: 2363

Chequer plate and wing top air scoops..... class! 2008 RS4 gone, 123d M Sport, and a Puma 90 XS..

7th Mar 2016 12:53pm

RRUK
Site Supporter

Member Since: 31 Mar 2010
Location: Leicestershire
Posts: 2025

The reason for symmetrical wing top vents is LHD and RHD variations.

On the RHD Puma, the RHD is a blank, it feeds nothing, so adding a KBX (as I have) is purely cosmetic.

On the heater side, my view would be NOT to have a forward facing vent of any kind, as the wind will push rain and possibly small debris in. This will slowly bung up the heater drain hole and help rot out the heater. Why encourage water in?

Having a snow cowl or a sideways facing vent cover will prevent rubbish falling in (it's a daft design let's face it). I don't think the so called 'hi-force vent' covers do anything for the force of air 2016 D4 HSE

1998 110 TUM HS FFR Hard Top XD WOLF

1982 Series 3 SWB Petrol

7th Mar 2016 12:56pm

jimbob7

Member Since: 06 Jul 2013
Location: uk
Posts: 2055

/\/\/\ Only if you lived where it snows very,very,very,very,very,very,very,very,heavily,100% of the time,with 100mph winds,(the planet Pluto perhaps). Pov.spec,ftw. 2006, 110,TD5.

7th Mar 2016 12:58pm

X4SKP

Member Since: 29 Nov 2013
Location: Berkshire
Posts: 2295

2010 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 SW Stornoway Grey

Hello Landyphil

I agree with your empirical testing method, fit it... test it... prove it...

A 'forward facing' scoop will increase the air flow into the heater unit... a sort of 'ram air' effect
but the efficiency of the base unit is where the real performance 'issue' lies...increasing or forcing
an extra supply of air may even reduce the heat output, again test it... prove it

When you begin to think about the after market options I'm sure that most of the products have never
been near any sort of 'wind tunnel testing', it's probably just a gut instinct that things will improve.

The KBX wing top 'scoops' are made well enough, but how effective are rows 2, 3 and 4 in reality ?

Click image to enlarge

I went from a 300tdi to a Puma and the heater was a shock to the system...

SKIP
https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic83242.html

7th Mar 2016 1:05pm

jimbob7

Member Since: 06 Jul 2013
Location: uk
Posts: 2055

/\/\/\No it won't,the moment an air flow meets a 90 degree bend it MASSIVELY', bends, drops off. Pov.spec,ftw. 2006, 110,TD5.

7th Mar 2016 1:53pm

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