 | Home > Td5 > Wire in Loom |
 
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| Steve B Member Since: 22 May 2009 Location: Warwickshire Posts: 586   
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Yea, my loom has wire in it too
The newer looms are apparently better and it is apparently fiddly but doable if you fairly competent. Not done it myself but going to as a preventative shortly. I am going to do the injector seals too while the cam cover is off, don't forget to get a new cam cover gasket too. Steve |
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8th Nov 2010 7:54pm |
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| stevie d Member Since: 09 Nov 2009 Location: Bishops Stortford Posts: 342 
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Try this post from LR 4x4 Technical Archive
http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?s=dbf5f0...opic=42788 Not done it myself, but looks simple enough. Steve  Defender 90 TD5 Station Wagon
Discovery 3 HSE BMW 330i Coupe |
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8th Nov 2010 8:13pm |
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| Paul_1978 Member Since: 08 Nov 2009 Location: South Yorkshire Posts: 384  
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I replaced the injector loom under the rocker cover.
Read up on "how to" in LRO (September 2010 issue i think). You need the loom and the gasket for the rocker cover, cost around £45 for the lot. As for the plug, after replacing the loom oil will still seep out, after time this will stop. Just apply contact cleaner and wipe away, about all you can do. I havent been into the ECU, but should be ok. Ive known motors work fine with the junction box full of gear box oil. |
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8th Nov 2010 8:20pm |
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| roel Member Since: 08 Aug 2009 Location: Lelystad Posts: 2039  
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I changed the loom to the injectors and the engine loom that runs from the ECU to the engine.
It is some work but it isn't difficult as the connectors on reach to and fit the connectors they have to fit. So it is fiddely to carefully disconnect and remove the old loom and the same to connect the new loom but it is not technical demanding. I had more problems with my ECU:  Click image to enlarge And a little corrosion on some wires  :
Click image to enlarge That's the risk if you buy a none runner. Roel 1984 90 2.5 na Diesel - RR V8 (1994-2001) 1997 Camel Trophy Discovery 300TDI (2001-2009) 2005 G4 Discovery III 4.4 V8 (2008-2018) It's gone but it still hurts. 2003 90 Td5 (2009-now) |
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9th Nov 2010 8:40am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17359 
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I had this problem on my TD5 Discovery, which differs from the TD5 defender only in the location of the ECU.
The dealer told me that the only rememdy was a new injector harness and engine loom, the former is cheap (£40 or so IIRC) and the latter is very expensive and a hassle (=> £lots) to fit. In the end I bought a new injector harness and did the job myself, very simple to do. Renewing the injector harnes involves removing the acoustic hood (if fitted) and the camshaft cover, it is then obvious how to remove and replace the harness. The engine loom can generally be saved. Clean the connectors with a suitable degreaser (I used denatured alcohol followed by brake cleaner), and it is also a help if you have a source of compressed air to blow the oil out and dry the connectors. The oil in the engine loom will continue to emerge at the ECU connector for a couple of weeks after you have fixed the problem, so it is worth cleaning this end each week until it stops. The ECU itself can be removed from the car and cleaned (alcohol followed by brake cleaner worked for me). There was so much oil on mine that I decided to open it up to check inside, and a small amount of oil had made it into the ECU. Again, alcohol and brake cleaner, but observe static handling precautions when dealing with the internals. Afterwards everything has been fine (for 7 years and nearly 200,000 miles), but read the bit below carefully! Important note - why the problem occurs in the first place: Many articles I have read about this oil-in-the-harness problem have said that the root cause is oil migrating from the cambox past the connector shell sealing O-rings into the engine harness (and I believe that the only change to the later harness connectors was to the O-rings). Certainly in the case of my car, this was not the problem, and there was no evidence whatsoever of oil making it past the O-rings. The oil actually migrates past the connector pins inside the connector shell, since there is no sealing whatsoever there. The connector shell itself is arranged vertically pointing downwards, and therefore fills with oil which has nowhere to go except to seep past the pins. To compound the problem, it will then emerge into the female part of the connector which delivers it straight into the conductors of each wire in the engine harness with the result that the insulation of each condutor in effect forms a miniature hosepipe to the ECU. This is of course very sloppy design - the designer should have specified a properly sealed connector system for this application, of which there are many. However the result of this is that if you simply replace the injector harness with a new one, even if you seal round the outside of the connector before fitting it, it is only a matter of time before you have the problem again. The only permanent cure is to fill the connector shell of the new harness completely with a suitable oil-resistant silicon sealant so that the shell is completely sealed to prevent oil ingress into the connector in the first place. Do this, and you will never have further problems (well, I haven't in nearly 200k miles). Hope this helps! |
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9th Nov 2010 10:09am |
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| mgb21 Member Since: 08 Nov 2010 Location: BUCKINGHAMSHIRE Posts: 7
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Thats great, thanks for the response.....looks like i best make a start on it all.
Matt 03 90 County Td5 |
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11th Nov 2010 7:07pm |
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| warren Member Since: 14 Oct 2009 Location: East Lancs. Posts: 903 
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I've often wondered, and please excuse me if this seems like a divvy thing to ask, but this seems to be an issue that seems to affect quite a number of Td5's, so it's obviously an issue, so why did LR never sort out a permanent fix?
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11th Nov 2010 11:25pm |
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| SiWhite Member Since: 19 Jan 2010 Location: North Hampshire Posts: 455 
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Probably cost - only affected a few vehicles compared to the number on the road. Might as well replace a few looms at cost under warranty than issue a recall for a problem that isn't the end of the world and doesn't cause any safety issues or damage. My blog - www.anacreinhampshire.blogspot.co.uk
110 TD5 BuildHERE - sold! 110 Tdci Build HERE - sold! Passat Alltrack - 4x4, auto, 45mpg, gloriously comfortable - but not a Defender! |
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12th Nov 2010 6:43am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17359
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I would actually say that it is inevitable that it will affect every TD5 eventually, because I don't think LR has ever taken any steps to stop it. I think nearly all TD5s will be running round with oil in the injector and engine looms but it really doesn't matter until a misfire starts, and this may never happen. (On my Disco, the misfire/rough running I was trying to fix when I found the oily harness was actually caused by a faulty TPS (throttle position sensor) and had nothing to do with the oil in the harness). The only permanent solution is for the connector on the injector harness to be fully sealed, inside and out, and although there are connector systems that would provide this level of sealing it is quite possible that there is nothing off-the-shelf that would fit without redesigning the aluminium casting that the connector locates in, which, from LR's point of view, would simply not be cost-effective. I believe that LR did modify the O-rings that seal the connector into the aluminium cambox casting, but any oil that leaks out past the O-rings will actually not enter the engine harness anyway, or if it does, it will be between the wires and the sleeving and will leak out before reaching the ECU. It is only the oil that leaks past the pins of the connectors and down inside the actual wires themselves that reaches the ECU, and as far as I am aware LR has never addressed this (but I stand to be corrected if there is an LR technician on here)! Fill the connector completely with suitable sealant before fitting it, and you'll not have any problems. |
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12th Nov 2010 9:12am |
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| SiWhite Member Since: 19 Jan 2010 Location: North Hampshire Posts: 455
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I've replaced my loom recently but would like to seal the connector to prevent any future problems. Any suggestions as to a suitable oil resistant sealant to buy? Or will some generic silicon do? My blog - www.anacreinhampshire.blogspot.co.uk
110 TD5 BuildHERE - sold! 110 Tdci Build HERE - sold! Passat Alltrack - 4x4, auto, 45mpg, gloriously comfortable - but not a Defender! |
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12th Nov 2010 12:37pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17359
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I seem to recall that I just 'browsed' in somewhere like Halfords until I found one which mentioned being oil-resistant. It was certainly nothing special. I filled the connector and let it 'cure' for a efw days before fitting, so that there was no questioned of soft sealant getting in places it shouldn't. |
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12th Nov 2010 4:52pm |
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| Steve B Member Since: 22 May 2009 Location: Warwickshire Posts: 586
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Why does the oil cause a misfire? Obviously its not supposed to be there, but there are sprays like wd40 which is sometimes recommended to be sprayed on electrical connections.
Mine started to misfire today  pulled off the red connector and there is a small amount of oil present. The last short run of loom wire actually goes up so I am suprised it made it to the red plug 
Oh well. Looks like I will be doing the loom change sooner. Are there looms I should steer clear of or are they all genuine? Thanks, Steve |
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14th Nov 2010 5:18pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17359
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It conducts electricity, which will/can interefer both with the outputs from the ECU (such as the signals to fire the injectors) and the inputs from the multiple sensors which allow the ECU to determine when and for how long to fire the injectors.
WD40 is a very poor conductor conductor of electricity, which means that it is unlikely to cause shorts etc. It is the water-repellant qualities of WD40 that make it sometimes improve electrical performance, since water is a better conductor. Driving off the water (and sometime flushing away contaminants) can improve performance, if these were factors in the poor performance. WD40 is also a lubricant, so if there were machanical issues impairing contact, it can help. The use of WD40 will over time however result in the deposition of residues that hinder conductivity, and as a result WD40 is not really suitable for use on switches or other moving contacts (use a good contact cleaner instead).
Because it is tracking down inside the insulation of the individual wires, they act like hosepipes - they are sealed except at the ends. As long as the ECU end is lower than the cambox end, oil will emerge at the ECU regardless of the route of the cable. Same principle in some ways to siphoning fuel from a tank. |
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15th Nov 2010 10:15am |
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| Steve B Member Since: 22 May 2009 Location: Warwickshire Posts: 586
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Thanks blackwolf, much clearer. Thanks for taking the time to reply.
Ah, so its inside the insulation of each wire. It only misfires at higher revs though, does it pass more current the higher the revs? Steve |
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15th Nov 2010 8:21pm |
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