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blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17307

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

Annoying rattles from the engine...

I have recently become increasingly aware of a couple of annoying rattles coming from the engine of my TDCi. After some investigation, I have tracked two different and easily distinguishable rattles to the following, I would be interested to hear if anyone else has had these problems and would welcome sensible suggestions for their eradication.

Rattle 1, the most noticeable, is a heavy rattle on tickover that makes a sound that you think is the bonnet rattling. It is actually caused by the plastic cover which is fitted above the injectors (2007 2.4), which is held down by two setscrews at the front of the engine and a rubber prong at the rear. There are also (supposed to be) four rubber pads at intervals along the cover, these are pushed into holes in the cover but there is nothing to stop them being pushed so far into the hole that they disappear inside, making them useless! The rubber prong has also worn and perished a bit, and the rattle is caused by the back of the plastic cover vibrating. The solution would be the replace the rubber bits, except (of course) they're not available separately, you have to buy the whole cover! My intention is to try to improvise some more effective rubber pads, but I'd welcome any suggestions.

Rattle two is being produced by the bracket that holds the metal bar that supports the manifold side of the turbo heatshield. Some moron in Ford's design department clearly decided that the best way to attach this bracket was to drill and tap an M8 blind hole in a boss on the rear branch of the manifold, which method, since the manifold is cast iron, was never likely to be satisfactory in the long term. The hole has now completely lost its thread due to 175,000 miles of heat, expansion/contraction, and rust, and the setscrew has fallen out. there is no thread remaining in the hole, the hole is mis-shapen to the extent that it probably can't really be reclaimed, so the options are limited. It might be possible to drill and helicoil but the risk of drilling through into the rear branch is significant. Landrover would no doubt suggest I fit a new manifold, but it is a bit OTT for a missing screw and a rattle. Any ideas?

We didn't used to have these problems with the old 'uns!

21st Sep 2015 3:39pm

ozy013

Member Since: 10 Feb 2014
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 105

2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Rimini Red

Rattle 2 was giving me the sh**s on a recent 4wd trip. The thread had totally gone, and the screw was happily spinning in the hole.
It must've been that way for awhile, as the bracket had also broken at the front mounting point.
The bracket was fixed with some of that metal weld putty, and I fixed the manifold end using a hose clamp.
So far that temporary fix is holding up fine, some 5,000kms later, I bought a new bracket with the plan of changing old for new. But will probably wait till the temporary fix gives up the ghost.
Like yourself, I haven't yet figured out how to safely re tap a thread into the manifold.

22nd Sep 2015 1:14am

K9F

Member Since: 12 Nov 2009
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 9610

2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey

Maybe if you have access obtain a length of M8 threaded bar or even cut a bolt and try to adhere it into the blind hole and just use a nut on it to secure the bracket. Obviously a Helicoil or Wurth Time Sert which has a flange to limit insertion and careful drilling would be the ideal engineering solution. Blackwolf I think I have an M8 Wurth kit that you can have as a 'loaner' if you wish? You know where I am if so!

http://www.autosessive.com/products/100264...oCQqnw_wcB If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!

Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!!

22nd Sep 2015 7:05am

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17307

ozy013 wrote:
Rattle 2 was giving me the sh**s on a recent 4wd trip. The thread had totally gone, and the screw was happily spinning in the hole.
It must've been that way for awhile, as the bracket had also broken at the front mounting point.
The bracket was fixed with some of that metal weld putty, and I fixed the manifold end using a hose clamp.
So far that temporary fix is holding up fine, some 5,000kms later, I bought a new bracket with the plan of changing old for new. But will probably wait till the temporary fix gives up the ghost.
Like yourself, I haven't yet figured out how to safely re tap a thread into the manifold.

It really is a pretty crap piece of design, isn't it?!

Last edited by blackwolf on 22nd Sep 2015 9:33am. Edited 1 time in total

22nd Sep 2015 7:11am

K9F

Member Since: 12 Nov 2009
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 9610

I haven't had a look at it but the offer is there if you wish!

If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!

Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!!

22nd Sep 2015 7:15am

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17307

Mal, as always that is extremely kind of you. I certainly have helicoils myself, but not a Timesert kit, but I was thinking of a threaded insert with a stud which can stay put, and then a nut to hold the bracket, rather than the setscrew that Ford in their wisdom used. After all, there are many manifolds which have studded flanges which don't cause problems, but very few with tapped holes for bolt/setscrews. There must be a reason!

The other approach which crossed my mind was to fabricate an additional bracket which attaches to the manifolds rear branch studs (the ones holding to the head) and supports the end of the heatshield bracket, which is the way I would have designed it from the start.

The final option is to replace the manifold since I do have a spare knocking around. If it needed to come off for any other reason this woudl be the sensible option, but it is a pain just for a loose heatshield bracket!

In reality I will probably just live with the rattle for a while since I don't really have time at the moment to do any of the above.

I don't know if any of the 'liquid metal' type of metal-loaded epoxies withstand heat well enough to use on a manifold - anyone know?

22nd Sep 2015 9:32am

ozy013

Member Since: 10 Feb 2014
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 105

I did try two different types of the "liquid metal" epoxy's, once i got back from the trip, neither would hold the stud i tried to fix to the manifold.
I'm on holiday's in Japan at the moment, so I don't have access to exactly what products I tried. But both epoxy's only lasted a day or so.

I definitely agree that it's pretty crappy design. I don't have much confidence in the new bracket, when I finally get round to putting it on, as the bloke I bought it from reckons he sells heaps of them

22nd Sep 2015 10:11pm

custom90

Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 20264

Probably not possible but could there not be a fixing bracket made affixing it from elsewhere?

R.E. The engine cover rubber bits, silicone any use perhaps? Wet silicone carefull manipulated into copies of the rubber should work.
It's similar in its properties to rubber and would even bonds it's self on if clean.
If it was black it'd even look like OE rubber and not clear.

When I had a plastic shroud flip break on the transfer of top it'd fit back in place but not stay there and would come off.
As it was a part that's not crucial, unseen and rather hidden I just used some silicone on it to keep it from rattling and more importantly keep it in place.
If you don't use too much it's easy to remove and clean up ad you'd never know if was there.

If you had the engine cover off, did this let it cure then put it back it should work but time consuming and fiddly.

Just an idea.

22nd Sep 2015 10:37pm

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