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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5829   
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In the news:
'An African migrant has been caught trying to smuggle himself into Spain while crammed into a tiny space behind a car’s engine, in the latest desperate ploy to enter the EU. The asylum seeker, reportedly from the West African nation of Guinea, was found hidden beneath the bonnet of the car as it crossed from Morocco into the Spanish enclave of Ceuta – one of two North African territories owned by Madrid. He was discovered by Guardia Civil border police, squeezed behind the engine block and radiator, lying in a foetal position. He was reportedly in a bad state of health as a result of the baking temperatures and petrol fumes. A second migrant, also from Guinea, was found hidden inside a tiny space behind one of the seats inside the car. They were identified only by their initials, T.D and A.B. Spanish police became suspicious after noticing that the driver of the car, who was not identified, appeared nervous. The driver was arrested. The two migrants were taken to a local hospital suffering from cramp and dehydration. Doctors said they could have died had they been inside the confined spaces much longer.'  Monsieur Le Grenadier
I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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1st Sep 2015 1:46pm |
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| JWL Member Since: 26 Oct 2011 Location: Hereford Posts: 3443  
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Ye Gods, what is driving these people to go to such lengths? Just think of all those that have allready got to their destinations as just because the extremities that some have gone to have been in the news over the past week doesn't mean that they will have been the first, just the small percentage found.
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1st Sep 2015 2:53pm |
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| Landlord Member Since: 27 Oct 2009 Location: Hampshire Posts: 582  
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They won't need to hide soon if this idiot gets her way !
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34114304 2007 TD5 90 Hard Top |
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1st Sep 2015 4:16pm |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5829
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I have mixed views on this. I watched a documentary earlier in the week following the migrants at Calais. Eventually one got across and was housed in an apartment in Glasgow and given £35/week to buy food until their asylum application was processed and I think 'what about our housing crisis'.
But then another part of me thinks back to being in a war zone and knowing what they must be going through, but without the kit, equipment and training I had, not with the option to leave or a time limit of 6 months 'in theatre' and of course with the extra burden of children, elderly parents, threats from local gangs, lack of work etc. I reflect on this and reflect on the determination many have shown on their journeys to the UK walking across deserts, being held to ransom by gangs, stuffed like a sardine into a boat and risking drowning, weeks travelling through Italy and France with nowhere to sleep, no money to eat etc, and then living in a miserable camp in Calais, running the risk of violence from gangs in the camps or the CRS and eventually making it to Britain. So, when balanced out with the number of ar***oles in the UK who do absolutely f*** all for their flats and benefits, I begins to think surely we should be more welcoming of people who have such a desire to risk their lives to better themselves. If rather than treating them as pariahs we accepted them, gave them a sense of identity and inclusion, surely the vast majority would wish to work, pay taxes and become proud citizens of the UK, more so than our indigenous loafers (one of whom questioned one of the migrants on the documentary as to why he was here taking 'our benefits' before tottering back to his flat with bag full of Special Bw to get sh**faced in his free housing) who quite frankly I think should be sent to Syria. Here's an actual example which questions whether we should send a migrant home. A Chinese man was interviewed a year or two ago before being sent back to China after being caught under the seat of a lorry at Dover. He had saved for ten years to pay for what he thought would be an official entry into the UK. Instead he was put on a boat at Hong King and taken to Thailand. He was made to disembark and then walk across Thaland staying in camps. Back onto a boat and taken to East Africa. Again, forced to disembark and walk to North Africa where he was kept for a year. Then he was put on a boat across the med before being stuffed into a coffin sized hole under the driver's seat where he stayed for almost three days as he travelled from Greece to Dover where he was caught. And we send him back. Someone with that drive, guts, courage, determination to save (against the odds in China) and will to get to the UK to improve the life for him and his family. Imagine what they could do for the UK if given a sense of legitimacy and a right to work in the UK. Make them a pariah and they'll work under the radar, but allow them to work legally and they will and will pay taxes etc. Far better for the UK than the fat slob who feels they are too important to work at McDs but who will buy a 42" plasma with a loan from Wonga because they feel they have a 'right' to nice things in life....  Monsieur Le Grenadier
I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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2nd Sep 2015 8:25am |
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| lambert.the.farmer Member Since: 11 Apr 2012 Location: harrogate Posts: 2006 
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I am conflicted on the subject of migration, yes we could do to offer assistance to them as need it but at what cost to our society and where to say enough is enough? Primarily though I have a question about migration, where are we supposed to put all these extra people, we have insufficient housing as it is? And further the same question occurs to me every time I see one of the many charity humanitarian appeals for this disaster or these starving kids or whatever emotional lever is being pulled. If all these people are to survive that would otherwise not, where are we going to keep them? We are killing the planet at an increasingly suicidal rate with a population at an unsustainable level placing impossible demands on finite resources. We have to back off or we will be our own executioner. Rhubarb and custard let fly with their secret weapon.
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2nd Sep 2015 7:29pm |
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| Tiger Member Since: 06 Jul 2012 Location: Wales Posts: 2265 
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This. 
Well said that man. |
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2nd Sep 2015 8:09pm |
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| Happyoldgit Member Since: 14 Sep 2007 Location: Norfolk Posts: 3471 
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I dare say similar arguments happened prior to WWII regarding the kindertransports.
There are multiple reasons behind the increased mass movement of people, the mistake is to tar everyone with the same brush. Steve. Owned numerous Land Rover vehicles of all shapes and sizes over the decades. Current Defender: A non tarts hand-bagged Puma 110 XS USW. [Insert something impressive here such as extensive list of previous Land Rovers or examples of your prestigeous and expensive items, trinkets, houses, bikes, vehicles etc] http://forums.lr4x4.com I used to be Miserable ...but now I'm ecstatic. |
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3rd Sep 2015 1:15pm |
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| Rickydodah Member Since: 14 Jul 2014 Location: East Sussex Posts: 1091 |
In my view regardless of who they are, from where they came from or why they should be refused entry. With the population growing exponentially any artificial increase will have devastating effects. In reality the biggest threat is any mass migration leads to pockets of people bound together by nationality, faith or culture. Generally speaking these are directly opposed to what British people regard as our identity. This is what is causing the conflicts. Our identity is being compromised, I'm not saying that our traditions, cultures and beliefs are more valid than any other, but they are the values of the host nation. When I have someone to stay in my home the rules are made by me, if they object or try and overrule me then they are not invited back, in fact I find it an insult if this happens. Locally planners are having to use more and more green space to provide housing, this attracts high earners from the capital which out price local people who have to move elsewhere. These interlopers are despised because of the people affected by their transience. I have to ask myself do I want this problem enmasse because of immigration, the answer is no. Great Britian has the highest population in terms of land mass in Europe and we will have real problems providing for ourselves in the not too distant future, any artificial rise in population will just exacerbate this further. These people do have a choice, the choices may be bleak, stay and fight or run. If they run who will fill the void of the lands they leave behind?
Apologies if my view offends anyone, it was not intended to. I don't consider myself racist, it's just a hard fact of life, if 800,000 Americans or Australians decided to come here every year then by view would be the same. Rant over  I started with nothing and still have most of it left! |
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3rd Sep 2015 2:26pm |
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| need4speed Member Since: 23 Nov 2012 Location: Kilmarnock Posts: 746 |
Just one of many do-good bloody liberals (even though she's labour)..... Like someone said already, if she's so concerned maybe she should house a few herself. We have plenty of unsolved poverty issues of our own without trying to solve other country's! Makes me f***ing mad! |
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3rd Sep 2015 3:36pm |
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| gilarion Member Since: 05 Dec 2013 Location: Wales Posts: 5110  
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Migration and who should take them in is a contentious issue and as we all know there are many arguments for taking refuges and not taking them.
However I like to go off facts and this is interesting, notably about Germany who it appears has an open door policy for certain migrants. ‘The UK is set to become the most populous country in the European Union in future years’ Eurostat's predicts that the UK's population will continue to rise, from 65 million in 2015 to 67m in 2020. By 2050 it will have reached more than 77m. In 2080, Eurostat believes the UK will have a population of more than 85m. Conversely, Germany's population is in decline, marginally between 2015 and 2020 (80.7m to 80.6m) but by 2050 it will have dropped to 74.7m. By 2080, the country's population will have reached 65.4m. Now as we all know governments use statistics to plan for future funding re schooling hospitals etc. So these statistics must be worrying for present and future governments of the UK. However for Angela Merkel these figures must be reassuring no wonder she is so keen on accepting migrants who will once established into society will contribute financially to a falling revenue due to a falling population. Maybe the same cannot be said for future UK standards of living. Think about it. For those who like Welsh Mountains and narrow boats have a look at my videos and photos at.. http://www.youtube.com/user/conwy1 |
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3rd Sep 2015 4:05pm |
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