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| munch90 Member Since: 26 Oct 2013 Location: guildford Posts: 3558  
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I would say 130+ kgs nose weight is too much for the caravan hitch not alone the tow bar
on the net specs for Buccaneer Schooner give a maximum nose weight of 100kg |
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27th Jul 2015 7:46am |
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| grafty99 Member Since: 15 Aug 2012 Location: North Devon Posts: 4792  
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How did you measure the nose weight? 2002 90 Td5 Station Wagon
1990 Vogue SE Triumph Tiger Explorer 1200 Td5 90 Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic50767.html Tdi 110 Thread https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic69562.html RRC Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic54492.html Instagram http://www.instagram.com/george_grafton |
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27th Jul 2015 8:48am |
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| Mynstral Member Since: 14 Feb 2012 Location: Essex Posts: 119 
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Hi Grafty99
I used a milenco calibrated nose gauge. Set at the height of towball height whilst towing. Regards Myn. Smoke me a kipper I'll be back for breakfast. |
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27th Jul 2015 9:03am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17520 
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Are you sure that your towball is the right height? It sounds to me as though you're lifting the nose of the 'van too high and consequently increasing the nosewieght.
The height of the towball should be determined by the height of the coupling of the van, not the other way round. |
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27th Jul 2015 9:22am |
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| munch90 Member Since: 26 Oct 2013 Location: guildford Posts: 3558
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I would say you need to load it different
you say 115kgs empty , but specs say max hitch nose weight of 100kgs , does seem odd to me , if max hitch weight is 100kgs then I would think really you need to work towards 80ish kgs ( only guessing as I don't have that model caravan ) there are specs and recommended weights etc on websites |
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27th Jul 2015 9:28am |
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| Lorryman100 Member Since: 01 Oct 2010 Location: Here Posts: 2686 |
After owning and towing twin axles since 2007 those nose weights sound about right. The caravan club recommend a nose weight of 7% of caravans ALW. Our Elddis Crusader twin axle ALW comes in at 1850kgs (1850 x 7% = 129.5 kgs) with a nose weight of 125 - 130 kg's loaded, Dixon Bate Alko jaw on bottom mounting holes of OEM tow pack. One of the reasons I like the defender's 150 kg nose weight limit.
 Click image to enlarge Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated  |
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27th Jul 2015 10:41am |
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| smb Member Since: 15 Jan 2013 Location: Cheshire Posts: 1232 
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It just means the weight of the caravan is heavier front of axles than the back. Try transferring some of the interior items to the rear.
Have you flushed all the water out of the system? Also, have you got two full gas bottles in the front storage? The gas alone could add 20kg+. |
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27th Jul 2015 10:47am |
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| Mynstral Member Since: 14 Feb 2012 Location: Essex Posts: 119
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Hi, nose weight measured at 420mm, lowest position on tow bar. If I remove the light weight 6kg gas bottles makes very little difference. It's looking like time to forget Shocklink. The actual tow ball is rated at 250kg, and I asume the bracketry is rated at 150kg. So nose weight of 130kg is still within parameters.
Regards Myn. Smoke me a kipper I'll be back for breakfast. |
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27th Jul 2015 10:53am |
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| gilarion Member Since: 05 Dec 2013 Location: Wales Posts: 5111  
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115-130 kg. That is far too heavy a nose weight and you risk the potential of front wheel lift on the Land Rover with that nose weight even a small bounce lift on the front wheels can have disastrous consequences. Most snakes that end up with the caravan jack knifing is caused through the towing vehicle having wheel lift. Altering the nose weight is simple by adjusting the positioning of heavy items in the van, also if you have on board water containers in the van draining them; even the heater water tank holds quite a weight in water.
The shock link will easily cope with the nose weight you have, however, the national caravan council recommends a nose weight of between 70kg and 100kg, so your second reading of 100 Kg would be fine however you are on the maximum end so I would try to aim at about 90Kg if at all possible. If you are still having problems obtaining the optimum nose weight try taking out the gas bottles and carrying them (well strapped down) in the towing vehicle. For those who like Welsh Mountains and narrow boats have a look at my videos and photos at.. http://www.youtube.com/user/conwy1 |
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27th Jul 2015 11:34am |
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| ARC99 Member Since: 19 Feb 2013 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 1831 
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Did you make sure that the caravan was level? This the correct way to measure the nose weight. See here for more information http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/media/14774016/noseweights.pdf Don't make old people mad. We don't like being old in the first place, so it doesn't take much to  us off.
Richard |
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27th Jul 2015 12:33pm |
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| Lorryman100 Member Since: 01 Oct 2010 Location: Here Posts: 2686 |
The defender is designed to have a nose weight maximum of 150 kgs, so how does 130 kg cause wheel lift when the defender nose weight is designed up to 150 kgs? Personally I have never experienced wheel lift even when towing a fully freighted tri axle ifor williams cattle trailer with I suspect a little over the approved 3500/150 kg limit, but then again I always drive to the towed load and road conditions.
JMTW I don't wish to offend anyone but have a look at the picture I posted of my set up and does that look anything but level? The set up is well within the tow vehicle and caravan weight limits or as I am now reading on here I have been doing it wrong for the past 8 years????. Caravan club recommendations ( Pretty much know their stuff about caravanning) Recommend that the caravan weighs MIRO 85% of the weight of the tow vehicle. Nose weight to be set at 7% of caravan MIRO. |
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27th Jul 2015 1:22pm |
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| Lorryman100 Member Since: 01 Oct 2010 Location: Here Posts: 2686 |
For a single axle caravan maybe, good luck finding a twin axle with a nose weight under a 100 kgs when empty. Again I can only offer my set up which came in at 102 kgs brand new from the dealers with 2 x gas bottles. |
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27th Jul 2015 1:27pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17520
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Lorryman, your caravan appears to have either a Radome or a Surface-to-Air missile system on the roof!
Nice looking outfit, btw!
Whilst I agree that an excessive nose-weight can result in loading alterations on the front axle and adverse handling, I am afraid that I have trouble comprehending what you mean by "front wheel lift". A simple calculation based on vehicle weights and dimensions suggests that with an otherwise unladen 110 you would need a downforce on the towing hitch in the region of four tonnes before you came close to lifting the front wheels, and even under dynamic conditions it is unlikely that you could come close to this without rather more sever problems manifesting themselves. A 90 is likely to be similar since although the wheelbase is shorter, so is the rear overhang. You will certainly have overloaded the rear axle to the point of destruction before the front wheels lift. In fact the combined mass of my swing-away wheel carrier and the spare wheel it carries are probably getting on for 100kgs, and directly over the tow hitch. They don't cause problems. |
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27th Jul 2015 3:06pm |
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| gilarion Member Since: 05 Dec 2013 Location: Wales Posts: 5111
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Wheel lift is down to several factors one being the pitching action of an incorrect nose weight. The nose weight recommendation in the vehicle handbook is not to be read as gospel. All good weight-carrying hitch and tow balls are designed when fitted correctly to uniformly distribute the trailer nose weight through the frame or chassis of the towing vehicle. Under certain conditions incorrect loading coupled with the vehicle encountering inconsistencies in the highway, (not excessive, but normal hills and curves) and the concerted weight placed on the rear of the vehicle is partially transferred from the trailer to the towing vehicle and back, an up and down motion is experienced between the vehicle and trailer which can press the vehicle down in back causing the front wheels to lift to the point where traction, steering response and braking are severely decreased. Too little nose weight can lift the rear of the vehicle, reducing rear-wheel traction and causing instability which may result in tail wagging or jack knifing. One of the problems of incorrect nose weight is those horrible accidents on the motorways. We have all seen them: a vehicle was pulling a trailer and for some inexplicable reason the trailer began to sway and the trailer became increasingly unruly and eventually overturned, causing the vehicle (with occupants) to overturn, as well. A fair amount of these accidents are due to the extra creation of fore and aft moment of the caravan or trailer known as pitching, is does not matter what the hand book says about nose weights and believe you me I have spoken in the past with Land Rover technical and they will not back up there claims about nose weight in court. While a shock link can absorb some of this pitching energy it cannot absorb it all, so a degree of energy in cycles is transferred through the chassis and running gear of the towing vehicle especially on uneven or badly serviced roads, add a second factor of the speed of the combined towing vehicle and trailer and those cycles can get faster to a degree where the set up can be almost impossible to control when this happens drivers automatically tend to slow down either by braking de accelerating or dropping gears this locks the cycled energy and increases its force and the next thing you know you are totally out of control. Even the most correct set up of nose weight cannot stop any of the above happening but if you try and obtain the most perfect nose weight set up you can, and tow a trailer that is loaded correctly you can minimise the risk to the point where you should be safe. Recommended nose weights by car manufactures are only a guide and not to be taken as read as there are so many other factors, weight of fuel, loading of the towing vehicle etc. Ask Land Rover technical they will tell you the same. How do I know all this several years ago I was unfortunate enough to have been involved in an incorrect nose weight related jack knife and overturn while towing a double axle trailer a ‘Trevella’ that had a recommended nose weight of 125Kg, (The accident investigators came to the conclusion that the nose weight of the trailer was incorrect for the towing vehicle and caused front wheel lift) fortunately I was not injured but the crash closed the M62 motorway for several hours and I was prosecuted by the police under construction and use, in my defence I quoted Land Rovers nose weight guides and tried to get Land Rover to back me they would not. In the end I had to pay a fine and collected penalty points. It also took me fifteen months to get my insurance company to pay out. For those who like Welsh Mountains and narrow boats have a look at my videos and photos at.. http://www.youtube.com/user/conwy1 |
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27th Jul 2015 3:16pm |
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