 | Home > Maintenance & Modifications > Tax/vat implications of adding rear seats to 90 hard top |
 
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| ppad Member Since: 16 Nov 2012 Location: now, UK S Coast Posts: 223   
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By coincidence I'm also looking right now. In my case I've got a 2005 TD5 90 truck cab here in Switzerland (with windows) and I want to add 2 small side facing seats, and also bring the truck to UK and it be legal there.
Who has added fold up side facing seats in a 90 ?? 
Ta. Sold the much modified 110 2.8, in Oz Brought the 90 home from Switzerland ... |
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22nd Jun 2015 9:22pm |
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| X4SKP Member Since: 29 Nov 2013 Location: Berkshire Posts: 2298 
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Hello barbel jim and ppad
I may be able to add something here... My 90 has had the X2 forward facing (as supplied) rear seats removed, and X4 inward (side) facing seats added. This was part of a general upgrade to the interior. The main use (preference) for this layout for me is... 1 Folding up these seats gives me more loading capacity (width) than the original configuration. 2 The side facing seats are easier (IMO) to use as 'top storage', for the Driver and front Passenger as you can easily reach behind to retrieve 'stuff' that is immediately behind the front two seats. They have been used many times for shortish journeys by my daughters and friends...the Defender is the vehicle of choice to transport to parties / festivals etc... 
You are right though this is far from clear when you look into this. As all new defenders are now classed as commercial vehicles (N1 from late 2010) in the UK, the Tax position for claiming VAT back as a capital purchase, if bought for business use, should be straight forward. The main points to consider beyond this is the legality for adapting the vehicle beyond purchase. In the old days a 90 hard top with no rear windows used for commercial / business use allowed the VAT to be claimed back, if windows were added (with or without seats) you had to then pay the VAT due to HMRC. In short now...Land Rover can't make and sell this arrangement but you can adapt yours to it... I have explained the position I reached in more detail here (Page 4)... scroll down, I answered some questions. http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic33204-45.html  Click image to enlarge Good Luck SKIP https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic83242.html |
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22nd Jun 2015 10:06pm |
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| bluebottle Member Since: 08 May 2015 Location: Not in my Landy enough! Posts: 705
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Does the length of the vehicle make any difference? By that I mean that I have a 2005 110 which has factory fitted 4x side facing seats in the load space behind my 3 second row seats... So presumably if it was legal in 2005 to have sideways facing seats in a 110 it should be ok to have them in a 2005 90? |
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23rd Jun 2015 7:19am |
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| leeds Member Since: 28 Dec 2009 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 8582
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A 90 HT is VAT qualifying and has a pay load of 719 kg
A 90 SW is not VAT qualifying and has a payload of 604 kg Fitting glass and seats to a 90 HT and Mr HMRC will definitely not be happy on the VAT front. Fitting rear seats in a 90 HT Mr HMRC will be very dubious about the VAT element. Apart from HMRC there is your motor vehicle insurance to consider as fitting extra seats will have an implication on your insurance premium and the insurance company may ask for an engineers report. Barbara's school bought a second hand mini bus and the proverbial definitely hit the fan when the school had its first MOT done. The police, trading standards and VOSA were all involved as the 'mini bus' was a converted van and things like the seats and seat belts figment were shall we say below the standards expected. The MOT station which issued the original certificate lost its 'licence' to do MOT's and other action was taken. Apart from the engineering aspect on the safety issues, sideways facing seats are no where near as safe as forward facing seats as the passengers are not properly restrained even if wearing a 3 point harness. Brendan |
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23rd Jun 2015 8:04am |
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| bluebottle Member Since: 08 May 2015 Location: Not in my Landy enough! Posts: 705
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It is precisely for this reason I'm thinking of taking out my 4 sideways seats and putting two removable forward facing ones from a later Puma in the rear load bay... |
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23rd Jun 2015 8:12am |
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| K9F Member Since: 12 Nov 2009 Location: Bournemouth Posts: 9610 
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Barbel and ppad you will be ok to fit side-facing as both your trucks are pre 2007. this is subject to meeting any approvals and getting insurance of course. Brendan's point about insurance is a valid one! Read into this what you will but replacing side-facing seats for forward ones or if fitting from scratch fitting forward facing ones may be a prudent idea perhaps? Especially as...."In 2007 the Defender had a significant upgrade, including the introduction of a pair of forward-facing seats in the rear to comply with changed type approval requirements."
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motoring...-defenders If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!! Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!! |
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23rd Jun 2015 8:19am |
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| ppad Member Since: 16 Nov 2012 Location: now, UK S Coast Posts: 223
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Brendan and all, thanks for all of that. I have to confess I don't understand the HMRC / VAT angle, I bought an 'object' , 8 years old, private sale, in UK in 2013, took the object to Switzerland and now will take the object back. HMRC cannot ask for dosh now!
Safety and insurance and MoT are the items on my mind. First I'll check my current insurance company. They won't have a clue what I'm talking about, but I'll try. Safety - Brendan I take your point, I've only needed seats occasionally, in Tuscany and UK, and journeys will be speed limited and no Autobahns. I want to maximise load space and flexibility. MoT - jeez: I left UK for Aus in 1990, where you only have an MoT at point of purchase / sale; in Switzerland the Kanton calls you in at some random time for an MoT based on how busy they are and where you are in the queue and who you know ..  MoT is a black art for me.
LRO did sideways seat install in a 90 in May 2014. Exmoor trim seats. Expensive. The article appears to say that if only 2, the seats should be at the rear of the tub. I want them at the front of the tub. .. Assume OK? Thanks again all.  Sold the much modified 110 2.8, in Oz
Brought the 90 home from Switzerland ... |
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23rd Jun 2015 10:55am |
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| barbel jim Member Since: 12 Dec 2012 Location: Northants Posts: 1434 
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Thanks all Especially Brendan and K9f.
I probably didn't explain myself that well in the first post ...... I have replaced my TD5 with a new 2.2 90 for work. The middle seat in the old TD5 was fab, and could get me out of a spot, like moving men between sites. As the new HT is only a 2 seater having some seats in the back would be extremely beneficial for occasions but yes it was brought through the business and the VAT claimed back. I would not be putting windows in, but a couple of forward facing with seat belts. It seems rather a grey area ??? A Jap double Cab pick up is ok as the payload is over 1000kg, BUT they can't tow enough hence another 90 (Personally prefer the TD5  ) |
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23rd Jun 2015 5:43pm |
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| RobKeay Member Since: 19 Jul 2009 Location: Stafford Posts: 1591 
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That's why I ended up with the 110 utility.
I really think sideways seats are dangerous and have first hand experience of the damage they cause to a person. From a vat point of view they would have to go to a lot of effort. Windows in the back would be another matter but the seats are only for short journeys. Just get your v5 updated and tell the insurance how many seats. There are two main options ex moor trim do a fair range now. Or you can convert the rear and fit genuine ones. |
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23rd Jun 2015 8:45pm |
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