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tpy

Member Since: 27 Jan 2014
Location: paris
Posts: 17

Clutch pedal gone soft, trouble selecting gear

Hello to all,

I recently got into problems with my clutch while cruising on the highway with my 2005 defender. No weird smell or noise or vibration, but the pedal went gradually softer and I started having difficulties selecting gears. I have already had a similar behaviour during a long run last summer in Spain, but it went away once the car had cooled down.

I decided to stop to a service station to let it cool down. When I tried to pull out again after a few minutes I could not engage any gear at all and the pedal was softer than ever. I had to call a tow truck.

Now comes the weird parts: the clutch fluid level is OK, and this morning the mechanics whom I've asked to look at the car told me he could engage gears almost normally.

He thinks it's a case for a new clutch, that these are signs of a clutch coming to an end, but some expert landists on french fora think otherwise, that this is rather an issue with the hydraulic command system, though there is no apparent leak.

Could this temperature effect be the sign that the clutch fluid has been boiled a few times and does not do its job at high temperature anymore? Air bubbles?

I've driven this same truck in Oman for 4 years where the temperatures in the desert can get very high, never got such an issue there. Truck now has 135.000km at the teller. Can clutch fluids get old, and does that make their boiling point drop? Is it recommended to bleed the master/slave cylinders and replace the fluid every now and then?

Is there any other type of failure of the clutch mechanism that could explain such symptoma?

Lots of questions, many thanks in advance for sharing your lights.

4th Nov 2014 7:45pm

mk1collector

Member Since: 17 Sep 2009
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 6769

Could be the seals in the master or slave cylinder letting the fluid past so you don't get compression or the clutch could be toast.

4th Nov 2014 7:48pm

ibexman

Member Since: 13 Dec 2008
Location: Essex
Posts: 2945

The slave cylinder pushrod has been known to pierce the release arm

4th Nov 2014 7:52pm

Lou Sparts

Member Since: 15 Apr 2012
Location: Kent
Posts: 1501

2005 Defender 90 Td5 XS CSW Zambezi Silver

I would replace the clutch fluid as it absorbs moisture and that moisture could boil and create an air lock so that when you depress the pedal you compress the air instead of the fluid, that would explain why the problem lessened when the car had cooled.

It is a good idea to replace the clutch fluid very two years as you do with brake fluid 2005 Td5 90 XS

Steve

4th Nov 2014 8:26pm

mk1collector

Member Since: 17 Sep 2009
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 6769

ibexman wrote:
The slave cylinder pushrod has been known to pierce the release arm

I thought that was on tdi's and td5's have cast release arms?

4th Nov 2014 8:30pm

tpy

Member Since: 27 Jan 2014
Location: paris
Posts: 17

Lou Sparts wrote:
I would replace the clutch fluid as it absorbs moisture and that moisture could boil and create an air lock so that when you depress the pedal you compress the air instead of the fluid, that would explain why the problem lessened when the car had cooled.

It is a good idea to replace the clutch fluid very two years as you do with brake fluid

Now that makes a lot of sense, thanks! I'll go ahead and purge the hydraulic fluid and let you know if problem is solved. Cheers.

4th Nov 2014 9:30pm

tpy

Member Since: 27 Jan 2014
Location: paris
Posts: 17

Hello Forumites, here is an update of my clutch situation:

I had the master and slave cylinders changed, the clutch pedal adjusted to give a longer course to the master cylinder rod. It seems to be ok now, I drove 600km this weekend (to the coast of Normandy and back, I could almost see you guys!), symptoma have disappeared, clutch pedal firm as it should be and no trouble selecting gears.

Could be short lived, but I'd love to understand a bit more of what the cause of the problem is if it is related to the clutch mechanism, before going for a complete clutch change. From what I understand from the TD5 2005 clutch design, I dont see how a worn clutch disk or flywheel could give that sort of trouble. Could it be the pressure plate? Are these parts known to wear out?

9th Nov 2014 8:37am

mk1collector

Member Since: 17 Sep 2009
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 6769

mk1collector wrote:
Could be the seals in the master or slave cylinder letting the fluid past so you don't get compression .

9th Nov 2014 10:59am

tpy

Member Since: 27 Jan 2014
Location: paris
Posts: 17

Thanks mk1collector, that's why I had these cylinders changed, so if it was only that I should be fine. However no fluid could be seen anywhere along the whole hydraulic circuit and the reservoir at the top was pretty much full, so if there was a leak it must have been a really small one.
Some people I spoke to about this clutch problem told me the clutch mechanism could be bust, but I dont see which part of it if not the command should fail to give such effects (soft pedale, no gear selection possible).

9th Nov 2014 11:55am

mk1collector

Member Since: 17 Sep 2009
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 6769

I meant the internal seals so there wouldn't be any leak. Basically when you press the pedal the fluid isn't pushed because the seals let it past.

9th Nov 2014 12:35pm

schuee

Member Since: 16 Jul 2012
Location: Lincolnshire
Posts: 378

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Orkney Grey

tpy wrote:
Hello Forumites, here is an update of my clutch situation:

I had the master and slave cylinders changed, the clutch pedal adjusted to give a longer course to the master cylinder rod. It seems to be ok now, I drove 600km this weekend (to the coast of Normandy and back, I could almost see you guys!), symptoma have disappeared, clutch pedal firm as it should be and no trouble selecting gears.

Could be short lived, but I'd love to understand a bit more of what the cause of the problem is if it is related to the clutch mechanism, before going for a complete clutch change. From what I understand from the TD5 2005 clutch design, I dont see how a worn clutch disk or flywheel could give that sort of trouble. Could it be the pressure plate? Are these parts known to wear out?

Good Morning tpy,

I have just been reading your previous post's and was wondering by having your master and slave cylinders replaced did this resolve the problem of your clutch pedal going soft?
At the moment I'm currently experiencing exactly the same symptoms as you had, and I have had the master cylinder replaced, and also due to the fact the fluid was jet black this was replaced also, though now think I should have had the slave cylinder replaced at the same time, I drive a 2.4 Tdci, though I suspect the clutch hydraulic systems are not dissimilar to the TD5?

Cheers
Keith

22nd Jan 2015 10:19am

munch90

Member Since: 26 Oct 2013
Location: guildford
Posts: 3558

gearbox out job to do a slave cyl on a puma 2.2 or 2.4 (called a concentric bearing , bearing and slave are one unit ), its inside the bell housing unlike a td5 which is outside

22nd Jan 2015 11:03am

tpy

Member Since: 27 Jan 2014
Location: paris
Posts: 17

schuee wrote:

Good Morning tpy,

I have just been reading your previous post's and was wondering by having your master and slave cylinders replaced did this resolve the problem of your clutch pedal going soft?
At the moment I'm currently experiencing exactly the same symptoms as you had, and I have had the master cylinder replaced, and also due to the fact the fluid was jet black this was replaced also, though now think I should have had the slave cylinder replaced at the same time, I drive a 2.4 Tdci, though I suspect the clutch hydraulic systems are not dissimilar to the TD5?

Cheers
Keith

Hello schuee,

Replacing the master and slave cylinders did resolve my problem indeed. I drove some 2000km (very little off-roading though, unfortunately) since and have not seen the symptoms coming back so far. Sorry to read above that changing the slave cylinder is probably less simple of a job on a Puma than on a TD5, but at least my experience tends to confirm Mk1collector's explanation given earlier in this thread and to show these symptoms dont necessarily mean the clutch should be replaced. Good luck!

22nd Jan 2015 11:37am

schuee

Member Since: 16 Jul 2012
Location: Lincolnshire
Posts: 378

Hi tpy,

That's good news then, hopefully by replacing the slave cylinder this will also resolve my problems, from what I can gather it's requires the gear box to be dropped to be replaced?
Thank you for your reply

Cheers
Keith

22nd Jan 2015 11:51am

schuee

Member Since: 16 Jul 2012
Location: Lincolnshire
Posts: 378

Hi tpy,

Slave cylinder replaced and all is working as it should do (for the time being)

Cheers

29th Jan 2015 11:15am

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