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funrover



Member Since: 12 Dec 2010
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 130

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Stornoway Grey
Building a snow plough, but unsure of traffic laws
Hi guys,

As part of a special episode of one of our FR projects, we are building a snow plough we intend to use to film a series of challenges. However, ploughing (all puns intended) through the internet, there's little to no guidance on ploughs in the UK. I've come across a little bit about how you can potentially use red diesel as a farmer e.t.c but was wondering if aside from informing our insurance company, purchasing some public liability insurance and making sure the outer edges are marked with flags and do not protrude beyond the wheel arches of the vehicle, are there any other considerations we're missing.

Can't find anything to say it's illegal, farmers seem to just bolt on a plough to a tractor, so what do you think? Anyone know a Traffic Officer or have a link to a government document? We're designing it ourselves to be built by a local engineering company so we can tweak design as needed. Needless to say it will be a non-permenant fixing.

Thanks for any help or advice you can spare Thumbs Up ,

Ben Editor of FunRover - One blog. Read it!
Land Rover rebuild video series here:
Post #98798 8th Nov 2011 5:17pm
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T1G UP



Member Since: 08 Dec 2009
Location: Bath
Posts: 3101

England 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Orkney Grey
Post #98802 8th Nov 2011 5:58pm
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twopoint6khz



Member Since: 18 Aug 2011
Location: North Lakes
Posts: 654

United Kingdom 2005 Defender 110 Td5 CSW Java Black
I think the OP was more asking about the legality of a home-made plough.

To be honest, as they're going to be used very rarely at very low speeds, probably on quiet roads you'd hope common sense would prevail - but what's the betting it doesn't Rolling Eyes

Still, I can't see the likes of Jake Wright going through some long-winded type approval process, so I guess the legal side rests with the user of the plough rather than the designer. After all any snow plough is going to do some damage if you're run over by it, whether home-made or not.

I'm guessing then that your vehicle needs to be designated as a snow plough somehow?

I might be wrong and it's just a case of bolt it on and go, but I'd be very surprised!
Post #98807 8th Nov 2011 6:19pm
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Glynparry25



Member Since: 16 Feb 2009
Location: Miserable Midlands
Posts: 3015

Wales 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS DCPU Tonga Green
Time to change your Mr whippy into yellow snow.

How much public liability are you able to get? Last winter farmers volunteered to assist the councils inclearing roads with their tractors, but they were warned that if they did they would be arrested.

I guess at the end of the day, if something goes slightly wrongyou could damage the road surface, which could then cause an accident and that could blow most public liability budgets out of the water.

Glyn Dog Sheep
Post #98809 8th Nov 2011 6:29pm
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funrover



Member Since: 12 Dec 2010
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 130

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Stornoway Grey
twopoint6khz wrote:
I think the OP was more asking about the legality of a home-made plough.

To be honest, as they're going to be used very rarely at very low speeds, probably on quiet roads you'd hope common sense would prevail - but what's the betting it doesn't Rolling Eyes

Still, I can't see the likes of Jake Wright going through some long-winded type approval process, so I guess the legal side rests with the user of the plough rather than the designer. After all any snow plough is going to do some damage if you're run over by it, whether home-made or not.

I'm guessing then that your vehicle needs to be designated as a snow plough somehow?

I might be wrong and it's just a case of bolt it on and go, but I'd be very surprised!


Thanks for the reply. The plough won't be homemade as such, rather properly engineered by a local company, finished in a high vis yellow and I've made sure to include mounting points for side markers (or amber beacons) e.t.c. You can apparently change your tax class to snow plough (I think it's a special or exempt class) which then means you no longer need to purchase road tax, but the vehicle must be used for the sole purpose of clearing snow. Whether this rule only applies to highways agency vehicles I'm not sure, but it also means you no longer require an MOT. This doesn't suit our 90 as we need to use it the rest of the year too.

Public Liability wise, I've spoken to some contractors and building maintenance workers, and apparently they have to have 5 million or so. I also remember this figure been banded around when in conjunction with ploughing or snow clearance somewhere.

But dimension wise, I can't really find much information as such. Glyn, you are right in saying that some farmers got into trouble, one farmer was fined £250 from memory for damaging a road, but the fact is he was on the road and he was ploughing, so had he not damaged the road I assume this was ok?

As far as I can tell to make it legal it should:


    * Not extend beyond the wheelarches of the vehicle
    * Be visible, some organge beacons as well as yellow hi-vis worn by driver
    * Plough will be powder coated yellow to stand out
    * There shouldn't be any sharp edges
    * the leading edge should preferably be rubber to avoid damaging road surfaces


T1G UP, I assure you I used Google, in fact the very page you sent me contains an article written by myself Very Happy Editor of FunRover - One blog. Read it!
Land Rover rebuild video series here:
Post #98822 8th Nov 2011 7:46pm
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funrover



Member Since: 12 Dec 2010
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 130

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Stornoway Grey
I'll post some CAD images if anyone's interested of what we've sent to the fabricators Smile Editor of FunRover - One blog. Read it!
Land Rover rebuild video series here:
Post #98823 8th Nov 2011 7:47pm
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Romadog



Member Since: 07 Jul 2011
Location: Powys
Posts: 1749

Fit Replacement headlamps and indicators as plough will block those fitted already.
Would think that plough shouldnt be able to lower without two seperate actions by operator.
Post #98833 8th Nov 2011 8:05pm
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diesel_jim



Member Since: 13 Oct 2008
Location: hiding
Posts: 6092

United Kingdom 2006 Defender 110 Td5 SW Epsom Green
I've got the plans here for the military snowplough bracket that raises and lowers, to be unit fabricated if/when the need arose for the older core 110. (some of the stuff I acquired whilst I was in)

Want me to try and scan it in?
Post #98842 8th Nov 2011 8:26pm
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funrover



Member Since: 12 Dec 2010
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 130

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Stornoway Grey
Romadog wrote:
Fit Replacement headlamps and indicators as plough will block those fitted already.
Would think that plough shouldnt be able to lower without two seperate actions by operator.


Thanks Romadog, I'll look into that, as I hadn't thought of it. Would spot lights count as head light replacements or do they need to be placed at the front of the vehicle, and hence on some sort of bracket on the plough itself?

diesel_jim wrote:

I've got the plans here for the military snowplough bracket that raises and lowers, to be unit fabricated if/when the need arose for the older core 110. (some of the stuff I acquired whilst I was in)

Want me to try and scan it in?


If you could Jim that would be brilliant. We were thinking of buying a military style bumper to mount the plough to funnily enough.

Thanks for all the help guys! Thumbs Up Editor of FunRover - One blog. Read it!
Land Rover rebuild video series here:
Post #98844 8th Nov 2011 8:35pm
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Matt



Member Since: 28 Feb 2011
Location: Aylesbury, Bucks
Posts: 180

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Corris Grey
Glynparry25 wrote:

How much public liability are you able to get? Last winter farmers volunteered to assist the councils inclearing roads with their tractors, but they were warned that if they did they would be arrested.

I guess at the end of the day, if something goes slightly wrongyou could damage the road surface, which could then cause an accident and that could blow most public liability budgets out of the water.

Glyn Dog Sheep


This is true. We were actually given a snow plough by Bucks council last winter then told we were not allowed to use it on the roads because insurance would not cover digging up the road surface if something broke or if we hit a car when snow ploughing. So we have a year old plough that we just have sitting around that we were given, so we are now fighting with the council for them to allow us to use it this year. We dont want a repeat of last year spending days on end pulling cars up and down the roads and out of ditches, where we would end up being liable if we damaged one of their cars in doing so. Banging Head

What a crazy country we live in. Confused 15 plate 2.2SW XS
Post #98858 8th Nov 2011 9:14pm
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XS Pete



Member Since: 13 Jan 2011
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 632

England 2011 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey
Thers a guy been selling these on ebay for a while now. I first saw them when we had all that snow last year. £1650 and I seem to remember there were two different versions. Look like a nicely made piece of kit. Maybe worth a look if youre after a few design cues.

Pete
Post #98872 8th Nov 2011 10:59pm
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mse



Member Since: 06 Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 5035

United Kingdom 2016 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Scotia Grey
Glynparry25 wrote:
Time to change your Mr whippy into yellow snow.

How much public liability are you able to get? Last winter farmers volunteered to assist the councils inclearing roads with their tractors, but they were warned that if they did they would be arrested.

I guess at the end of the day, if something goes slightly wrongyou could damage the road surface, which could then cause an accident and that could blow most public liability budgets out of the water.

Glyn Dog Sheep


Im not sure that actually happened - if it did, it didnt in any area im aware of, as i know farmers who were asked to go out! Mike
Post #98886 9th Nov 2011 7:44am
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pom



Member Since: 01 Jun 2010
Location: Worcester
Posts: 1343

yeah lots of the big 4wd john deer tractors round here with ploughs on cleaning the non 'A' roads which is pretty much all of them in the country.

Don;t be too worried about the insurance culture I'm sure the people who rely on the roads for work / school / emergency etc would be appreciative.

Pom
Post #98897 9th Nov 2011 9:01am
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funrover



Member Since: 12 Dec 2010
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 130

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Stornoway Grey
pom wrote:
yeah lots of the big 4wd john deer tractors round here with ploughs on cleaning the non 'A' roads which is pretty much all of them in the country.

Don;t be too worried about the insurance culture I'm sure the people who rely on the roads for work / school / emergency etc would be appreciative.

Pom


I've found an article from City & Guilds on "Winter Clearance" and I'm starting to think it's literally just common sense. I believe you are speed restricted (but I mean who's going to tear off at 100m.p.h with a plough) attached, and you need to make sure the plough is visible e.t.c, I think you'll get fined only if you do a poor job or damage the road surface.

XS Pete wrote:
Thers a guy been selling these on ebay for a while now. I first saw them when we had all that snow last year. £1650 and I seem to remember there were two different versions. Look like a nicely made piece of kit. Maybe worth a look if youre after a few design cues.

Pete


We liked that design too, we've based ours loosely around his winch operated one, only we'll use a small ATV / Boat trailer type winch mounted onto the a-bar itself. I was a little concerned about weight with a winch, winch bumper and plough mounted on. It must handle like a skip! Editor of FunRover - One blog. Read it!
Land Rover rebuild video series here:
Post #98912 9th Nov 2011 10:51am
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cradgebank



Member Since: 30 Dec 2008
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 308

England 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey
Construction

Any attachment or accessory fitted to a Road Vehicle must comply with Construction and Use regulations, these fall into two categories, 1) Vehicles up to 3500 KG GVW and 11) Vehicles over 3500 KG.

These are a very complex set of regulations that specify vehicle widths, lengths, lighting requirements etc.

A Snow plough if being used on the Highway must be constructed as to ensure the vehicle remains compliant with these regulations.

If you are serious about building one then I suggest you get a copy of this book, expensive but known as the "Bible" when it comes to this kind of question.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lowes-Transport-Ma...0749464038

Using a Snow Plough on the Highway

Technically this is a little more difficult, as far as the law stands, you risk no more liability than using your vehicle in its normal role, i.e. if a wheel falls off your car you could damage the Highway and risk prosecution, having said that a snow plough that is not set up correctly with sufficient clearance etc stands a greater chance of damaging the highway.

The big show stopper is insurance, speak to your insurance company and tell them you are going out acting as a good samaritan clearing the roads with your snow plough and they will terminate your policy before you can hang up the phone, have an accident whilst Snow ploughing and the last thing you will need to worry about is damaging the highway.

Unless you are looking at this as a commercial venture contracting to the Highways Agency or Local Authorities, or only using it off the public highway, I would strongly recommend you reconsider the idea. Richard

Either a 90, 110 or 130.
Discovery 5
Post #98925 9th Nov 2011 12:18pm
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