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| Eduardo Member Since: 28 Aug 2008 Location: Región Metropolitana Posts: 2110   
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Hi guys,
After 1 month and 500 km from the diesel filter change and cleaning the fuel tank the Defender was running pretty well. But today the Defender start again with up and down revolutions when idle until stop it and some loss of force. The fault is random so I suspect that I have some problem with the fuel. I drain the filter and i found almost 20% of the volume were water. Also a lot of residues were found (white small lumps like wax and other gargage) It is normal? Some pictures: Diesel vs water  Click image to enlarge The lumps Click image to enlarge Residue after draining the water and the fuel Click image to enlarge Thanks in advance! Eduardo MY 2007 110 SW PUMA 2.4: Big Fog of 64' MY 1994 Jayco 1207 Folding camper: "El Tremendo" Click image to enlarge |
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5th Nov 2014 2:36am |
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| LR90XS2011 Member Since: 05 Apr 2011 Location: bickenhill Posts: 3641  
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not normal, you have had a dodgy fill up of contaminated fuel. DEFENDER 90 TDCI XS,
I hope everyone is well and your land rovers make you happy |
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5th Nov 2014 6:13am |
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| Enid_Puceflange Member Since: 25 Oct 2014 Location: edinburgh Posts: 1172  
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5th Nov 2014 8:22am |
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| Eduardo Member Since: 28 Aug 2008 Location: Región Metropolitana Posts: 2110
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LR90XS2011: Doogy fuels means just water or also other kind of contamination (bacterial)? Tank breather pipe looks ok without any cracks or something strange, only dirty outside but not clogging. (it is the original one, without the modification of the loop), Any procedure to take out the contaminationt? Cheers Eduardo MY 2007 110 SW PUMA 2.4: Big Fog of 64' MY 1994 Jayco 1207 Folding camper: "El Tremendo" Click image to enlarge |
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5th Nov 2014 9:42am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17391 
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Have you checked where your tank breather pipe terminates? On the earlier TDCi Defenders the pipe runs to the rear leaft corner of the vehicle and terminates in the wheelbox, right behind the wheel. It gets an enormous amount of wet muddy crud thrwon onto it, and moisture and dirt eventually enter the tank.
Your fuel definitely looks horrible. There's too much water, the black stuff could well be the "diesel bug", the white stuff, well I have no idea what it is, but it shouldn't be there. I suggest draining the tank, dropping it off the vehicle, and cleaning it thoroughly (through the hole where the pick up assembly fits). Flush the fule lines from tank to filter as a minimum, possibly those from filter to engine (though these should be OK since the filter is pretty good). THen refit making sure that the breather is routed somewhere clean and dry (mine now terminates inside the rear body by the left hand light unit). Also expect the Volume Control Valve on the fuel pump to need replacing. This valve is very susceptible to damage from water and/or dirty fuel and almost always needs replacing in these cases. It also tends not to cause any DTCs to be logged, so if you have rough running and dirty fuel or fuel starvation symptoms but no DTCs, suspect the VCV. The good news is that there seems only to be a very small amount of black stuff, though the tank may of course be full of it. Thoroughly cleaning the tank, and using a fuel biocide for the next few fills shouls sort the "bug" out. Buying good quality fuel, buying from garages which seel a lot of fuel (so it isnt stored for long periods) is advisable. If possible, never use fuel which has been stored in cans, especially metal jerrycans (the condensation causes the bug to grow very rapidly). |
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5th Nov 2014 9:49am |
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| Eduardo Member Since: 28 Aug 2008 Location: Región Metropolitana Posts: 2110
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Thanks Blackwolf
The tank was take out and cleaned just 1 month ago (500 km) during a maintenance. Should I do it again? The breathe pipe terminal looks OK. (Some dirt outside but nothing too bad). Also the raining periods have end and the car have not seen any rain or water in the last month. I only fuel from well known authorized gas stations but probably the problem was a fuel with water in one of the gas stations. The fault is random and stop the car just one time. Can I survive draining the filter more frecuently or I need to discard the fuel that I have in the tank? Regards Eduardo MY 2007 110 SW PUMA 2.4: Big Fog of 64' MY 1994 Jayco 1207 Folding camper: "El Tremendo" Click image to enlarge |
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5th Nov 2014 10:40am |
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| landy andy Member Since: 15 Feb 2009 Location: Ware, Herts Posts: 5711 
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Interesting statement there Blackwolf. The rubbish that came out of my filter was so bad that I decided to cut the filter open, and was amazed at the debris that it contained, then within a few thousand miles vcv failed and needed replacing and recoding (as you know). Shame, it thought the fact all the crap was in the filter meant it was doing its job.
Andy |
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5th Nov 2014 11:00am |
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| Eduardo Member Since: 28 Aug 2008 Location: Región Metropolitana Posts: 2110
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Just I told with my Indy to see what can we do:
We will see if the amount of water can be take out draining the filter every one or two days and then change again the fuel filter. If the problem persist, remove the tank, cleaning it and flush all the lines. I hope that will be enough and the VCV were not damaged. Cheers! Eduardo MY 2007 110 SW PUMA 2.4: Big Fog of 64' MY 1994 Jayco 1207 Folding camper: "El Tremendo" Click image to enlarge |
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5th Nov 2014 1:14pm |
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| landy andy Member Since: 15 Feb 2009 Location: Ware, Herts Posts: 5711
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I hope yours is ok.
Don't know if it's changing the filter that caused the vcv to fail or the debris that caused it. Is it possible that changing the filter could allow debris to enter fuel lines? I can't believe it would. Keep an ear open for more knocky tappy engine, 
Andy |
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5th Nov 2014 2:32pm |
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| rallysteve Member Since: 10 Feb 2014 Location: Cumbria Posts: 2229 
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Suggest you check the condition of filler cap seal and rubber fuel filler hose...
Both are possible causes of water ingredd to the tank. Steve 02' 110 TD5 Double Cab Rebuild Thread |
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5th Nov 2014 2:52pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17391
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The filters are generally good and provided that a good quality (for example Mahle) filter is used it should get the crud out of the fuel. The filter is fine enough at least in theory to stop diesel bug microbes getting to the tank. There is hoewever considerable risk of contamination on the delivery side of the filter when fitting a new one, and whne prefilling it with fuel (the normal way to avoid bleeding). The VCV is very likely to be damaged by water in the fuel, and as far as I know water will pass the filter. The only water seperation strategy on the Puma relies on gravity seperation in the filter, so it is likely that when driving the dirty fuel/water mix in the tank side of the filter will be sloshing about and water will potentially be passed to the fuel pump. After the issues I had with contaminated fuel I now change the fuel filter annually or more frequently if needed, ie far more frequently that the LR service schedule suggests. |
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5th Nov 2014 3:45pm |
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| munch90 Member Since: 26 Oct 2013 Location: guildford Posts: 3558 
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I would guess the white stuff is from a too higher veg oil content in the fuel
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5th Nov 2014 7:00pm |
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| Eduardo Member Since: 28 Aug 2008 Location: Región Metropolitana Posts: 2110
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Just an update
After the first drain of the filter, the Defender back to the normal behavior without any major issues. Anyway I drain it again yesterday in the nigth (after +/- 50 km). The amount of water was around 5% with some pollution, I hope that the filter can cope with this  .
BTW diesel in Chile doesnt have any percentage of vegetal oil. Cheers Eduardo MY 2007 110 SW PUMA 2.4: Big Fog of 64' MY 1994 Jayco 1207 Folding camper: "El Tremendo" Click image to enlarge |
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6th Nov 2014 5:43pm |
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| munch90 Member Since: 26 Oct 2013 Location: guildford Posts: 3558
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have you put any fuel in from a can ?
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6th Nov 2014 6:44pm |
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