 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Perfectly running 2.4Tcdi - now Nordic trip in jeopardy! |
 
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| munch90 Member Since: 26 Oct 2013 Location: guildford Posts: 3558  
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no fuel pump in the tank of a tdci
did the rac take the filter off and drain it out ..make sure the filter is on propley easy to miss the last little twist of the filter in the housing , cover off and give it a twist by hand , sometimes they are bit tight on last bit |
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6th Oct 2014 4:56pm |
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| CLCraig Member Since: 05 Aug 2014 Location: Somerset Posts: 104  
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As a precaution I would change the fuel filter
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6th Oct 2014 5:21pm |
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| munch90 Member Since: 26 Oct 2013 Location: guildford Posts: 3558
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would have thought rac would have changed it
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6th Oct 2014 5:39pm |
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| munch90 Member Since: 26 Oct 2013 Location: guildford Posts: 3558
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just re read post , whooshing noise possible intercooler hose
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6th Oct 2014 5:41pm |
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| Lou Sparts Member Since: 15 Apr 2012 Location: Kent Posts: 1501 
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Whooshing under acceleration would make me think of air leaks on the inlet,possibly loose inter cooler hose or similar.
Definitely change the fuel filter as the cost is minimal and is something to eliminate.. 2005 Td5 90 XS Steve |
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6th Oct 2014 5:41pm |
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| X4SKP Member Since: 29 Nov 2013 Location: Berkshire Posts: 2295 
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Hello 90_ken
Sorry to here your story. I know you probably know this but if you put Petrol (any amount really) in a Diesel then don't run it...ever. You can possibly get away with this scenario reversed, and no doubt some will say they did what you did and got away with it, but it's too risky really. Also most hand drain pumps wont fully drain the tank. They can look like they have but there will still be fuel in there and the only true way to remove all traces is to remove the tank, and use a cloth to mop up the last amount of fuel before, either cleaning the tank or rinsing it out with Diesel. The Defender really should have a drain plug, and it's an indictment of the wrong approach by LR to a simple 'must have feature list' that it doesn't. Removing the tank (initially) was a bug@er of a job on my 90, (a 2.4 tdci 2010), when achieved even then with all pipes removed and the tank fully inverted, 1/2 a cup full of fuel stayed in the tank. All that said munch90 could be right, and it's worth checking the fuel filter is correctly engaged and is also primed (full of Diesel) before it's installed. Even then the system could need priming, but by the sounds of it, you have run and refilled a number of times now, so something still isn't right. The next thing to check is the Fuel Pump as this is first bit of kit 'inline' for damage as the wrong juice heads towards the engine. Hopefully if the Fuel Filter is ok the 'damage' could be limited to the Fuel Pump, trial and elimination I would say rather than going for your full list all at once... The RAC man should (and probably did) know the advice on their web site... http://www.rac.co.uk/breakdown-cover/wrong...diesel-car Hope you get a quick fix. If your interested, this was my long winded route to fixing a fuel leak on mine but the relevant bit is the removal of the Fuel Tank (which I still think you don't now need to do). http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic25866.html Good Luck. SKIP https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic83242.html Last edited by X4SKP on 8th Oct 2014 4:10pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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6th Oct 2014 6:01pm |
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| munch90 Member Since: 26 Oct 2013 Location: guildford Posts: 3558
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if the filter is filled with diesel and it starts and keeps running air will clear without priming , but sometimes it will take a run of couple miles to completey clear , they sometimes wont clear just sitting ticking over
if its down to fuel then loose filter loose pipe etc would be my guess whoosing guessing air leak loose pipe intercooler hose damage caused by petrol in diesel very very unlikely if the amount you stated in your post is correct |
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6th Oct 2014 6:11pm |
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| NinetyTD4 Member Since: 22 Apr 2011 Location: North Posts: 397  
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Just go on and flush more nice diesel through the system. If it was only a couple of liters, nothing should be in danger, but it could take quite a while until all petrol is out of the system - simply burn it. Never forget: cars have owner, Landrover have field service personnel.
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7th Oct 2014 2:35pm |
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| 90_ken Member Since: 03 Oct 2014 Location: St albans Posts: 8 
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Thank you all for your advice.
Just to clarify what the RAC man did; Drained the tank via motorised pump, we both came to the decision that is was empty as we were going to get...shucking air and storage tank stated 70 litres and land fuel gauge empty. He then put in 20 litres of diesel and turned the land over, failing to start, serval times. Then use a hand pump bleed tool via the fuel drain off. After serval more attempts turning land over it started and ran well. He then added a diesel treatment and I then went and filled the tank up with ultimate and a diesel fuel jet cleaner. Have checked intercooler hose and one end did indeed have a lose clip. the fuel filter was tight and no other lose hoses could be found. Landy still whooshes under acceleration and definitely sounds like it is coming from the opposite side to the inter cooler. Could running the fuel pump dry cause damage when not lubicated by diesel? With the edu adjusting the running according to its senses for best performance, should I have it reset? Further help before removing the tank and cleaning, changing the fuel pump and filter would be very appreciated. Ken |
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7th Oct 2014 8:41pm |
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| 90_ken Member Since: 03 Oct 2014 Location: St albans Posts: 8
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May well follow your advice. Thanks Ken |
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7th Oct 2014 8:42pm |
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| bcp Member Since: 01 Aug 2012 Location: East of Scotland Posts: 93 
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Sounds like when my intercooler hose had a hole. Whooshing noise from about 1800 revs, then power loss.
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7th Oct 2014 8:54pm |
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| munch90 Member Since: 26 Oct 2013 Location: guildford Posts: 3558
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quote " The Fuel Pump is set back from the engine on the side of the Chassis "
there is no electric fuel pump in the tank or anywhere on a tdci , only pump is the high pressure pump run by the timing chain and bolted to the engine there is a good chance your problem is not fuel related |
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7th Oct 2014 8:55pm |
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| NinetyTD4 Member Since: 22 Apr 2011 Location: North Posts: 397
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@munch90: Please be precise - there is no extra fuel pump standard in the 2.4 TDCi PUMA.
So the statement is fine for this particular case, but. The current 2.2 PUMA does have one and due to it a slighty smaller tank. Never forget: cars have owner, Landrover have field service personnel. |
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8th Oct 2014 11:34am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17450 
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Even if he stuck the pump pick-up down the filler, this won't empty the tank completely. The only way to empty the tank completely is to remove it from the vehicle and invert it. It is likely that you had up to a gallon left in the tank, including of course any sludge, grot, and diesel-bug slime that may be in the bottom.
What do you mean by "the fuel drain off"? Do you mean the moisture drain on the filter, or do you mean the bleed valve on the fuel line leading into the combined LP/HP fuel pump (this valve is located just above the back of the inlet manifold)?
It's not clear what you mean by "the other side to the intercooler" since the intercooler runs across the vehicle! Either pipe can fail, but the one most likely to leak is the pipe from the turbo to the intercooler which runs just above the steering box. This is a classic problem, since if it isn't fitted exactly right it will rest on the steering mechanism or rub the air filter bracket and wear through, giving the "whoosh" noise similar to that you describe. If it is holed by the steering, the damage will be on the bottom of the pipe and very, very difficult to see with the pipe on the vehicle, although you may be able to feel it.
Running with either dirty fuel or after a misfuel is highly likely to damage the Volume Control Valve, which is part of the combined fuel pump located on the front nearside of the engine. This valve regulates the flow of fuel entering the HP stage from the LP stage, and is fragile. If it is on the blink, you will get rough running, erratic idle, poor pick up (like a flat spot), and a range of other unpredictable symptoms. It is quite possible that there will be no DTCs logged however (you may get faults related to the HP common rail, but the absence of faults doesn't by any means indicate that the VCV is not faulty - it usually doesn't case DTCs).
No.
Removing the tank is not technically difficult but can be time consuming depending on towing gear, ARB, etc, and I haven't done it on a 90 (only my 110 a few times). Changing the filter is easy, but as posted here by others, fill the new filter with fuel before fitting it. If you can, drain some fuel out of the old filter into a glass jar and inspect it for water, sludge, or cloudiness. It is not easy to see why misfueling would case this but it may have stirred up sludge in the tank. The fuel pump on a 2.4 is a hugely expensive unit, mechanically driven, and attached to the engine adjacent to the front of the inlet manifold. It is unlikely (but not impossible) that you have damaged it, and you certainly don't want to replace it if you don't have to. Similarly for the injectors. Damage is possible, but unlikely given the relatively small amount of petrol you ran through it. The VCV is replaceable seperately from the pump itself, and costs about £100. If you are suffereing from irregular running with no other symptoms and no DTCs, I suggest changing it. Note however that a faulty VCV won't cause a "whooshing" noise - at least I cannot imagine any way in which it could - so I asuspect that you may have a non-fuel-related coincident fault. If I were you, I would focus on the "whoosh" and check the intercooler pipes very thoroughly, then check for leaks between the exhaust manifold and the cylinder head (on my '07 the front branch of the manifold loosens itself about once a year and needs retightening), check for leakage also between the exhaust manifold and the turbo flange. It is likely that one of these is the source of you noise. If you do end up removing the tank, whilst it is out take out the pick-up assembly and clean it thoroughly, and also mop the inside of the tank through the hole that the pick-up fits into. The hole is big enough to get your arm in, and this is the only way to get the tank really clean. |
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8th Oct 2014 1:42pm |
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