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Glynparry25



Member Since: 16 Feb 2009
Location: Miserable Midlands
Posts: 3015
Wales 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS DCPU Tonga Green
Tachograph or not?
Good seasonal evening ladies and gents.

Recently I have been having problems with a different vehicle supplied second hand from a dealer. They are proving VERY difficult- so far 2 months of legal letters going back and fourth. There is one thing I am trying to confirm really from you gents.

When I stated that I wasn't willing to drive the vehicle to the workshop (faulty suspension) and was going to get a local inspection they VERY promptly phoned me saying that they have a 4x4/ trailer on-route to pick the vehicle up.

Should the tow vehicle have been fitted with a tachograph (gross weight of about 5tons)?

I think yes, and it is another thing I can use as leverage....... Discuss

Cheers in advance and Merry Christmas who have all read this Smile
Glyn Dog Sheep
Post #292039 20th Dec 2013 8:16pm
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Anderzander



Member Since: 08 Feb 2011
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 1000
United Kingdom 
Any use ?http://www.fleetnews.co.uk/fleet-management/fleet-legislation-do-you-need-a-tachograph-if-you-tow-for-your-business-you-do/37588/
Post #292040 20th Dec 2013 8:21pm
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Cakey



Member Since: 19 Feb 2013
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 468
United Kingdom 2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Santorini Black
I was under the impression it could be exempt if operating less than 100km from base
Post #292042 20th Dec 2013 8:27pm
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Glynparry25



Member Since: 16 Feb 2009
Location: Miserable Midlands
Posts: 3015
Wales 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS DCPU Tonga Green
That is basically what I am 100% aware of,

But I wasn't paying the workshop for the transport- or will this drop into warranty costs? I guess the guy driving it was being paid to therefore it is for gain?

I hate the legals Rolling Eyes

Glyn Dog Sheep
Post #292043 20th Dec 2013 8:28pm
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Glynparry25



Member Since: 16 Feb 2009
Location: Miserable Midlands
Posts: 3015
Wales 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS DCPU Tonga Green
Cakey wrote:
I was under the impression it could be exempt if operating less than 100km from base


Isn't that for 'Recovery', which only covers to the 'nearest safe place'? Where this was actually 'Transporting' a vehicle........ or am I reading it wrong?

Glyn Dog Sheep
Post #292044 20th Dec 2013 8:29pm
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Cakey



Member Since: 19 Feb 2013
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 468
United Kingdom 2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Santorini Black
Breakdown Vehicles operating within a 100km (62 miles) radius of their base” are identified as exempt from the EU drivers hours regulations. VOSA’s interpretation of this is as follows….

If more than 100km they have to fill a chart I think
Post #292045 20th Dec 2013 8:30pm
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Cakey



Member Since: 19 Feb 2013
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 468
United Kingdom 2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Santorini Black
I suppose they could always say it was classed as a breakdown rather than recovery , bit of a slippy one that .
Post #292046 20th Dec 2013 8:33pm
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JJ



Member Since: 18 May 2009
Location: Winchester
Posts: 932
United Kingdom 1987 Defender 110 V8 Petrol CSW Corris Grey
Probably not.
It is a grey area with lots of interpretation required.
If only towing locally and just picking up and dropping of plant , machinery etc. no tachograph is required.
If you are towing for a living or covering long distances then a tacho and drivers hours apply.
Even then there are exemptions that can be claimed .
Post #292047 20th Dec 2013 8:34pm
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Glynparry25



Member Since: 16 Feb 2009
Location: Miserable Midlands
Posts: 3015
Wales 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS DCPU Tonga Green
But surely Recovery is only when the vehicle is being recovered from place of breakdown? Where this was from my farm (off public highway) to the garage.

Glyn Dog Sheep
Post #292048 20th Dec 2013 8:36pm
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Glynparry25



Member Since: 16 Feb 2009
Location: Miserable Midlands
Posts: 3015
Wales 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS DCPU Tonga Green
Cakey wrote:
Breakdown Vehicles operating within a 100km (62 miles) radius of their base” are identified as exempt from the EU drivers hours regulations. VOSA’s interpretation of this is as follows….

If more than 100km they have to fill a chart I think


After more reserch:

.GOV website- EXEMPTIONS TO TACHOGRAPH wrote:
Specialised breakdown vehicles operating within a
100 km radius of their base.

‘Specialised breakdown vehicle’ was interpreted by
the European Court as a vehicle whose construction,
fitments and other permanent characteristics were such
that it would be used mainly for removing vehicles that
had recently been involved in an accident or
broken down.


So good news for me they can't use that excuse.

Glyn Dog Sheep
Post #292052 20th Dec 2013 8:45pm
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Glynparry25



Member Since: 16 Feb 2009
Location: Miserable Midlands
Posts: 3015
Wales 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS DCPU Tonga Green
JJ wrote:

If only towing locally and just picking up and dropping of plant , machinery etc. no tachograph is required.


The way I see that is if the customer picks up the plant- so they rent the plant, then it is then a private use of using the trailer to transport it to and from home then they don't need tachograph.

If the transport of the plant is included in the rental it then is 'commercial use' and therefore a tachograph is needed?

Glyn Dog Sheep
Post #292053 20th Dec 2013 8:50pm
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GUM97



Member Since: 05 Feb 2012
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 3555
United Kingdom 1997 Defender 90 300 Tdi HT Stornoway Grey
Glyn- If we have to send our breakdown van (normal van, not adapted from standard apart from flashers and equipment etc.) out with a trailer to recover a vehicle (within permitted range), we still have to use a tachograph. However, if we send out a van adapted for the sole purpose of recovery (with either a beaver tail back or hydraulic boom) again within permitted range then we don't have to use a tachograph. In reality it's slightly different as we deal with trucks (and a Transit van doesn't often manage to recover a 44T truck Wink ), but that's basically what happens without adding unnecessary other factors in only applicable to the HGVs. HTH?

Pete An engine to TDi for!
"Land Rover- Proudly turning drivers into mechanics since 1948"
Post #292058 20th Dec 2013 8:59pm
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jimbob7



Member Since: 06 Jul 2013
Location: uk
Posts: 2055
Everything you want to know about tachos and drivers hours but were afraid to ask Rolling Eyes ,fill yer boots!
I would say yes, tacho needed,maybe ask VOSA themselves,but expect the same contradictory answers you have on here,lol.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syst...europe.pdf Pov.spec,ftw. 2006, 110,TD5.
Post #292064 20th Dec 2013 9:33pm
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jimbob7



Member Since: 06 Jul 2013
Location: uk
Posts: 2055
JJ wrote:
Probably not.
It is a grey area with lots of interpretation required.
If only towing locally and just picking up and dropping of plant , machinery etc. no tachograph is required.
If you are towing for a living or covering long distances then a tacho and drivers hours apply.
Even then there are exemptions that can be claimed .


Just to expand on your answer.If your job is specifically delivering plant machinery you need a tacho regardless of distance,if your are a builder taking your mini digger/compressor to your building site then you don't need a tacho (within 50km and under 7.5ton) Pov.spec,ftw. 2006, 110,TD5.
Post #292066 20th Dec 2013 9:42pm
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Glynparry25



Member Since: 16 Feb 2009
Location: Miserable Midlands
Posts: 3015
Wales 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS DCPU Tonga Green
Thanks so much gents....... Looks like I now have them by the short and curleys...... Lets hope that in the light of this they will finally admit to their wrong doings and regret refusing my offer (and holding my vehicle ransom for the past 2 months)!!!

Thumbs Up jimbob7, I owe you a few pints for the clarity Thumbs Up

Glyn Dog Sheep
Post #292067 20th Dec 2013 9:48pm
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