 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Puma does not start in cold weather |
 
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| bell-auto-services Member Since: 08 Jul 2007 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 2232   
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Change the fuel filter incase it has water in the trap at the bottom.
Pete |
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23rd Nov 2013 11:31am |
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| Khasar Member Since: 09 Nov 2013 Location: Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia Posts: 8 
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thanks Pete, when the problem first started a month ago, i took out the fuel filter, checked for any water residue in it, drained all of its content there was no sign of any water in it. filled it back with diesel and fitted it back.
Khasar |
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23rd Nov 2013 11:42am |
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| bell-auto-services Member Since: 08 Jul 2007 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 2232
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Try a new one just incase the element inside is damaged.
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23rd Nov 2013 11:45am |
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| Glynparry25 Member Since: 16 Feb 2009 Location: Miserable Midlands Posts: 3015  
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Hi Khasar,
Could be a similar problem to what I had in Cyprus. The fuel was of a 'cheaper' grade and would start waxing at a relatively high temperature- it was starting to wax at -5 degrees C. I changed the filter and then added some additive to the tank and then had no more problems. Might be an idea to drain some fuel (when warm) and then do some tests on it to either confirm or dissmis this possibility.  Click image to enlarge +5 degrees C Click image to enlarge -10 degrees C... The thermometer is stood up in it without support Glyn  :sheep:
Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated  Last edited by Glynparry25 on 23rd Nov 2013 3:31pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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23rd Nov 2013 11:55am |
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| Khasar Member Since: 09 Nov 2013 Location: Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia Posts: 8
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thanks guys, will check and let you know on Monday once the local LR dealer is open.
will try the diesel test tomorrow, they say its Euro Nano brand diesel. |
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23rd Nov 2013 1:28pm |
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| Lorryman100 Member Since: 01 Oct 2010 Location: Here Posts: 2686 |
If the diesel is not the issue check the glow plugs, glow plug harness and the glow plug relay. You can do an Ohms test on a glow plug with a DMM to check for an open circuit and check the relay as well. Any DTC's logged in the EMS?
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23rd Nov 2013 3:19pm |
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| Khasar Member Since: 09 Nov 2013 Location: Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia Posts: 8
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sorry took me a while to get back with my findings. changed the fuel filter, checked the fuel it is winter diesel still same story puma does not want to start in the morning after she was left outside at -15C.
LR dealer did not say anything about EMS codes, when i had it checked there. here is the finding in the picture. the main positive wire that goes to the glow plugs was loose, not completely loose from the copper wire but definitely wiggles when touched. could this be the reason for the bad start? due to loose wire diesel is not being heated to the required temperature because the wire is not transmitting 100%? and since finding out this cable issue, it struck me odd that even in summer my diesel warming light would be on for 4 seconds, is this normal? even after the car has been warmed up, on the road for 2 hours or more, diesel spiral sign would be on for 3-4 seconds, or is this a common puma thing? |
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4th Dec 2013 2:49pm |
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| Lorryman100 Member Since: 01 Oct 2010 Location: Here Posts: 2686 |
During the preheat stage, the ECM receives the engine temperature from the cylinder head temperature (CHT) sensor and this is what determines the preheat time. The lower the temperature, the longer the preheat time. There is a maximum preheat time of about 8 seconds at -20°C or lower.
Once the engine has started, the glow plugs enter an after-glow phase. The after-glow phase only operates at engine speeds below 2500 rpm, above that the after-glow phase is stopped to increase the longevity of the glow plugs. There is a maximum after-glow time of about 30 seconds at -20°C or lower. If the CHT is above 50 degrees C there is no after glow. If the connection is loose then yes that can be a cause of the glow plugs not working. A easy test is to use a DMM and do a voltage / amps check on the rail. The glow plugs draw a decent amperage so a loose connection will stop the maximum current from being delivered to the plug rail. HTH  |
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4th Dec 2013 3:31pm |
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| Khasar Member Since: 09 Nov 2013 Location: Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia Posts: 8
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thank you. will check that within this week. here is the photo of the wire i suspect has a problem. this goes directly to the glow plugs. the bottom part had electrical tape which came off easily and looked as if had been under high heat.
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4th Dec 2013 4:03pm |
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| K9F Member Since: 12 Nov 2009 Location: Bournemouth Posts: 9610 
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If as Lorryman suggests the heat cycle goes on for a maximum of 8 seconds and you located a loose wire/connection it is plausible that with the high resistance your symptoms could be explained. Especially if the cable/connection has heat stress signs.
From glancing at the workshop manual there appears to be three main DTCs referring to open/short circuits in the glow plug system P037D29 Glow plug relay sensor circuit - signal invalid Glow plug short circuit to ground Relay circuit to relay Relay circuit from relay Glow plug relay fault Check the relay and circuits. Refer to the electrical guides. Activate the relay and check for an audible "click". Rectify as necessary. Clear the DTCs and test for normal operation. P038011 Glow plug/heater circuit A - circuit short to ground Glow plug relay control circuit: short circuit to ground Glow plug relay fault Check the relay and circuits. Refer to the electrical guides. Activate the relay and check for an audible "click". Rectify as necessary. Clear the DTCs and test for normal operation. P038015 Glow plug/heater circuit A - circuit short to battery or open Glow plug relay control circuit: short circuit to power Glow plug relay control circuit: open circuit Glow plug relay fault Check the relay and circuits. Refer to the electrical guides. Activate the relay and check for an audible "click". Rectify as necessary. Clear the DTCs and test for normal operation. I would have thought one of these may have been logged perhaps? I hope you have found the cause. If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!
Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!! |
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4th Dec 2013 4:10pm |
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| Khasar Member Since: 09 Nov 2013 Location: Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia Posts: 8
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I think finally some breakthrough on the case, as suggested checked the glow plugs and here is the finding:
Didn't go to the dealer as they charge almost 80USD just to check for any logged codes in the system and will charge additional hourly labour fee on top of the overcharged price for any replacement item. 3 glow plugs were dead... only 1 was working, checked each individual glow plug with a multimeter and double checked it via hardwiring it to a battery. same result, 1 works, 3 other are not. reading on the working plug was 16.4. so in the end, not sure if i should complain for the lack of any warning on the dashboard spiral light or be amazed it was starting only on 1 working glow plug during Mongolian winter 
Glow plugs were not available at the dealer, if i order through them, it will come after 3 weeks and each glow plug will cost 40 USD. Ordered it from London, set of 4 plugs around 30 USD and arrives after a week |
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17th Dec 2013 4:27am |
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| Caterham Member Since: 06 Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 6300  
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sounds like a happy ending
(once again I'm astounded at Lorryman100's knowledge  ) |
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17th Dec 2013 7:45am |
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| bpman Member Since: 21 May 2008 Location: Oslo Posts: 8069 
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out of interest Khasar, does your engine have the breather heater installed from the rocker cover to the airbox ? does it feel warm ? |
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17th Dec 2013 10:01am |
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| x-isle Member Since: 26 May 2011 Location: Midlands Posts: 1327 
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Slightly bouncing off on a tangent and probably not that useful and also puts a bit of strain on the battery but in anything less than 0deg I usually cycle through the heater plugs 3 times (ign on, heat, off, on, heat, off, on, heat, start).
Don't know why, I think I might of heard it off Ed Cobley? Craig Rogers 2007 Puma 110 XS 2011 Evoque Coupe Dynamic Lux www.craigrogers.photography |
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17th Dec 2013 10:07am |
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