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| Skye_Rover Member Since: 29 Aug 2013 Location: Skye Posts: 85   
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I might have not made myself clear - I had not intended to suggest that the Engineers do not know what they are doing. Quite the opposite, Landrover has the best out there. However, if what they are doing is "not Defender", then that lineage of Landrover's is going to suffer.
A common problem these days is that it becomes easier to bolt-on "goodies" to fix issues, rather than go for simple-and-elegant solutions. The options from the goodies tray generally come with a) electronics, and b) complexity. One thing (and it is one of the only things) that Landrover cannot claim to be any good at is electrical infrastructure. So if you have more of it, more opportunities arise to have failures in the field. One aspect of working vehicles out in the wide world (such as Defender, L200, HiLux) is that they have fewer bits on them, but rather well Engineered bits that last a bit longer in the field. If you spend your money bringing electrical complexity down from the "posher" end of the range to Defender, because it is easier to cross-platform engineer that way, then you are not spending money on getting the basics right. Or allowing a new generation of Engineers to get to grips with whatever makes a Defender really good, such as simplicity. There are still a good many people that appreciate good, basic design, and want to buy that sort of car. Running an older Defender only works for a while, before it needs a serious cash-injection to renew the worn-out parts. There is still a market for new vehicles that don't come dripping in complexity, although perhaps not necessarily the UK. I fix electrical problems for a living, but have a 300Tdi for the obvious reason that I cannot spend all my time fixing my main back-up vehicle that has to operate 364 days a year. I really would like to have a 2.4Puma, because the rest of the vehicle would be nearly-new (so I can treat it with wax effectively) and the mechanical bits wouldn't be 120,000miles down their lifetime. I don't want ABS, TC, or any other electronic control boxes under the bonnet/seats to get wet, which is what happens on a working vehicle (especially on Skye), and why I go through so much electrical switch cleaner fluid in a month. Just a well Engineered set of hydraulic brakes will do. Roads? Where we're going, we don't need roads. |
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5th Sep 2013 9:29am |
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| RobKeay Member Since: 19 Jul 2009 Location: Stafford Posts: 1585  
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How do discoveries fair in Skye. Sounds like that's where LandRover need to test their vehicles.
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5th Sep 2013 9:58am |
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| Skye_Rover Member Since: 29 Aug 2013 Location: Skye Posts: 85
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Hmmm, well, I did have that suggestion for Landrover a few years back, not received well by the management there.....
Discovery2 has become the darling of the enthusiasts up here. I think that good coverage by mags like LRM has helped the cause quite a bit, and generally people are not put off them by three-amigos and the like. I like to point out to detractors that, having eliminated the usual problems that are well documented, they're not too bad. The ABS sensors are better than average (although hub corrosion will eventually do its thing) and the electrical units appear reasonably well packaged in the passenger footwell (few damp problems, for some unknown reason). The rear air suspension is commonly broken/bypassed/replaced by the time I see these, so Testbook isn't much good by then  Biggest problem for damp seems to be the alpine windows leaking, with all the attendant issues around the remote plip tranceiver and other wiring behind the headlining. Rust is a bigger issue than most of the UK, even the bodywork, but especially the centre lower chassis rail edge under the front footwells. All in all, though, not a bad old bus, and popular, especially TD5.
Discovery3. What can you say? Seemingly random problems everywhere in the electrical circuits. The problems are not that much different to the ones reported elsewhere in the UK. The Disco3 3-amigos problems abound here, mostly down to the steering angle sensor failing mechanically. The problem is, a) the customers are more fussy about "little" faults, b) the chain reactions to those faults is more severe (loss of suspension, TC, ABS) so they have to be fixed. The CAN bus wiring seems immune to the damp, but then again, there seems a lot more loss of radio functions and faults littered over the IPack diagnostics than most. I have only 4 regular customers with D3, all have problems of one sort or another that have to be lived-with. I was able to sort the turbo out on one without major access work (ran a cleaner agent through the intake), but that was down to being stood in a damp environment with carbon on/in the vane control gimbals. The customer is now just being careful how she runs the car, and more cleaner sits on the shelf.... A big issue is rust, but not in the way that LR would expect. The brake discs rust like most cars up here, yet genuine Defender discs do not. The suspension fixings all rust solid, so they are unserviceable (especially with poor access for 3/4" drive) when the bushes start to fail (with alarming regularity). All the brake lines corrode earlier than expected. Alloy wheel corrosion seems poorer-than-usual, especially at the bead where its critical. Yet elsewhere on the body and chassis, all is much better than previous products (good materials). So a bit of a dichotomy. Would I have a D3 in this part of the world? No way, too much is dependent on access to 2-post ramps (I only have Bradbury 4-post) to separate major parts of the car. If it breaks down, it's too heavy for most trailers (my recovery truck is sized to cope, but feels the weight on an HSE), and it's a long way to the dealers on the East Coast (135miles or thereabouts). Disco4. No real feedback yet, but lack of development on the DPF management will soon show up here, as most cars with DPF do not get the drive-cycle necessary to keep things under control. Despite of the hills, there is no long, hard slog to get the regeneration completed in time. Biggest culprits are PSA (Peugeot, Citroen), but with the addition of DPF across the board on the LR diesels, only time will tell. Roads? Where we're going, we don't need roads. |
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5th Sep 2013 10:41am |
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| RobKeay Member Since: 19 Jul 2009 Location: Stafford Posts: 1585
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Well least the dpf can be removed if needs be. Only really use the defender in anger for towing. I just don't get the issues with damp or driving long enough to regenerate.
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5th Sep 2013 12:28pm |
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