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Arbman Al

Member Since: 04 Jan 2012
Location: Surrey
Posts: 80

Stay with Auto or change back to manual gearbox?

Last winter I installed a TD5 engine in my 1996 130, and at the same time converted it to auto using a ZF4hp22 from a disco 1. The 130 has a box body on the back to chip into, and tows a chipper often. The unladen weight is 2.8t, so no featherweight.

Whilst the auto is nice to drive from a point of view of not changing gear when sitting in traffic jams, or when there are three of us in the cab it has to be revved quite hard to get it to do anything. The box has been rebuilt and drives very well, but now having used it for a year in all different situations, beginning to think I should go back to a manual, to preserve the engine and drivetrain.

Would you expect an auto to handle the situation I have put it in, or am I asking too much from it?

Cheers.....Al 1996 Defender 130 converted to TD5 and auto

1975 Triumph Stag 3.0 V8

7th Feb 2013 3:22pm

JeremyJ

Member Since: 16 Nov 2011
Location: Aylesbury
Posts: 1758

Personally I love my TD5 auto 110 for off road work but with the weight you're pulling I can imagine how much it does need reving to do anything!

My worry with yours would be how hot the gearbox is getting under load. If its not getting too hot and it doesnt need to be a rocketship personally I would leave it in.

I'm running a VNT turbo from Pete at BAS on mine and that made a big difference

7th Feb 2013 4:01pm

Pam W

Member Since: 25 Oct 2011
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 1169

I have the electronic version of the ZF auto, with Compushift, on my TD5 90. It is my understanding that with the electronic system you can more easily change the settings for gear changes to suit the use of the vehicle and your driving style. We've tweaked mine a few times since fitting it and it changes gear smoothly, with no need to rev hard....

With the earlier hydraulic boxes you have very little control of where the gear changes happen and whilst on the 300 Tdis this worked OK, the Td5 system seems to be better with the electronic version.

I'm sure my other half can explain it much better than I can though....

Our blog - http://landytravels.com/

Yorkshire Off Road Club - http://www.yorkshireoffroadclub.net

7th Feb 2013 4:37pm

GREENI

Member Since: 22 Aug 2010
Location: staffs
Posts: 10379

I want auto

Just because I'm lazy.

7th Feb 2013 6:22pm

me@td5.org

Member Since: 16 Jan 2011
Location: Warwick
Posts: 856

A cheaper option will be to get more torque out of the engine. I'm sure that a VNT, remap and inter cooler would cost less than swapping the gearbox.

7th Feb 2013 6:24pm

appaloosadude

Member Since: 17 Oct 2012
Location: Buckinghamshire
Posts: 630

me@td5.org wrote:
A cheaper option will be to get more torque out of the engine. I'm sure that a VNT, remap and inter cooler would cost less than swapping the gearbox.

Unless you could find someone that wanted a swap of Gearboxes?

7th Feb 2013 8:34pm

Arbman Al

Member Since: 04 Jan 2012
Location: Surrey
Posts: 80

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Compushift would be nice but out of my price range.
A remap has been done already to about 120bhp I think.
The VNT turbo maybe a good idea, how would that effect the pulling away torque? 1996 Defender 130 converted to TD5 and auto

1975 Triumph Stag 3.0 V8

7th Feb 2013 11:13pm

Arbman Al

Member Since: 04 Jan 2012
Location: Surrey
Posts: 80

7th Feb 2013 11:13pm

davew

Member Since: 02 Jan 2012
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 888

1990 Defender 90 V8 Petrol PU Auto Rioja Red

You say you had the gearbox rebuilt but a Disco 1 gearbox won't fit a TD5 so what else did you get done to the box ? Which torque convertor did you fit ? Was the gearbox shift pattern adjusted ?

A different torque convertor might make a difference, no point in thinking about increasing the torque of the engine if you're losing it all through having the wrong torque convertor for the job. http://www.yorkshireoffroadclub.net/

7th Feb 2013 11:27pm

Arbman Al

Member Since: 04 Jan 2012
Location: Surrey
Posts: 80

davew wrote:
You say you had the gearbox rebuilt but a Disco 1 gearbox won't fit a TD5 so what else did you get done to the box ? Which torque convertor did you fit ? Was the gearbox shift pattern adjusted ?

A different torque convertor might make a difference, no point in thinking about increasing the torque of the engine if you're losing it all through having the wrong torque convertor for the job.

Hi Dave,

I fitted a HD torque convertor from Ashcroft. Don't remember doing anything to the box originally, just fitted it. Admittedly I had trouble changing up out of first when it was cold, and eventually had it rebuilt by JT Automatics over Dartford way. It has been driving fine since then, just lacks any torque when pulling away, and even worse with a bit of weight in the back. 1996 Defender 130 converted to TD5 and auto

1975 Triumph Stag 3.0 V8

7th Feb 2013 11:53pm

davew

Member Since: 02 Jan 2012
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 888

Sounds like you've pretty much covered off what can be done to the gearbox at a reasonable cost.

Which transfer box/ratio are you using ?
What size tyres are you running ? http://www.yorkshireoffroadclub.net/

8th Feb 2013 12:50am

ashtrans
Site Sponsor

Member Since: 08 Nov 2008
Location: Harpenden
Posts: 257

Hi,

Yes if it's on the disco 1.2 transfer case, it will be too lazy pulling off bring a heavy 110,

Dave Dave

8th Feb 2013 7:11am

Arbman Al

Member Since: 04 Jan 2012
Location: Surrey
Posts: 80

I'm running a 1.4 transfer box and 235/85 tyres. I did try a 1.2 t/box but soon took that off again

1996 Defender 130 converted to TD5 and auto

1975 Triumph Stag 3.0 V8

8th Feb 2013 8:49am

davew

Member Since: 02 Jan 2012
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 888

Not surprised you struggled with the 1.2

I'd keep an eye out for a second hand 1.6 given the weight you're hauling around and the tyre size. It'll be a bit under geared for the motorway but I think the TD5 will cope with it reasonably well. It'll make pulling away from a standing start a lot better though and improve acceleration. It might even improve fuel economy unless you spend a lot of time on motorways.

You can usually pick up second hand transfer boxes for around the £120-£150 mark, 1.6 ones are comparatively rare but there's still plenty about. They were fitted to 110s as standard for many years due to the potentially heavier load and larger standard tyres. Fitting yourself it's a pretty cheap option, possibly zero cost - if it doesn't work sell it on for the same money, if it does you can sell the 1.4 if you want to. On my own in the driveway it normally takes me about 4 hours to swap one, a lot quicker if you can persuade some friends to help.

I used to run a 1.6 when I was running a 3.9 V8 with hydraulic auto with tyres up to 35 inch and it made the driving a lot easier. It improved fuel consumption because the gearbox stayed locked up for more time, keeping it within the engine's power band. It improved acceleration 0-60 time dramatically although it dropped my cruise speed by about 10MPH. http://www.yorkshireoffroadclub.net/

8th Feb 2013 10:00am

twopoint6khz

Member Since: 18 Aug 2011
Location: North Lakes
Posts: 654

I thought 1.6s were only fitted to 110 HCPUs and even then only as an option?

8th Feb 2013 10:11am

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