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blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17598

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

Drive flange bolts

Has anyone here successfully removed a sheared off drive flange bolt from the hub without damaging the hub, and if so, how?

I have one such and am doubtful if it can be done (so probably need a new hub

) but would be interested to hear from anyonee who may have accomplished this.

As I posted elsewhere, this is I think a new but fairly common phenomenon resulting from the use of thread locking compound on the bolts - in the good old days of shakeproof washers and clean bolts it simply didn't happen. I know from my own experience that the thread locking compound and joint compound tends to build up in the hole in the hub and is exceptionally difficult to remove, with the result that the bolt tends to go tight before its fully home. If, as I believe to be the case with my Defender, a 'professional' has used a windy gun to fit the bolts, they can be stressed well above yield stress and then fail when the next attempt is made to remove them.

At the moment my thoughts about extraction include making a pilot bush to drill straight down the centre of the sheared bolt (easy enough), but the main problem I can see is that the remains will still be threadlocked into the hole. It seems to be very difficult indeed to destroy the threadlock (copious heat may do it, but is also likely to damage the hub and bearings). By the looks of it there isn't sufficient material between the bolt-hole and the bore of the hub to allow the whole fragment to be machined out and the hole helicoiled unfortunately, since this would otherwise be the easiest solution.

Any ideas welcomed!

Since it is likely that I will end up need ing a new hub anyway there is relatively little to lose trying.

11th Oct 2011 8:58am

Grockle

Member Since: 24 Nov 2008
Location: Peak District National Park
Posts: 2266

2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Tonga Green

try an 'easyout' 2.4 90 XS
1968 1/32 scale Britains 109 Pick up.

11th Oct 2011 9:47am

BigMike

Member Since: 13 Jul 2010
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 2253

Yes I have - damned hard work. Drilled it out and had to re-tap the thread. Tried an Easyout, didn't work

11th Oct 2011 10:05am

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17598

I am doubtful that an easyout would work, due to the relative sizes of the sheared bolt and easyout, and the use of threadlocker.

An easyout always has a tendency to expand the fragment it's screwed into, and therefore the smaller the hole drilled for it relative to the fragment diameter the better. The fragment is M10, so the root diameter is going to be around 9mm max, so the hole for the easyout couldn't really be more than 5mm, which means a pertty small easyout. The chances of snapping the easyout, especially due to the fact that the fragment is still threadlocked, is too high.

At the moment my thoughts are to drill out the stub as close as possible to tapping drill size, burn out any polymer remains by flashing with oxy-propane, then clean the thread with a tap. Might work, perhaps.

11th Oct 2011 10:40am

Grockle

Member Since: 24 Nov 2008
Location: Peak District National Park
Posts: 2266

only thing left is a helicoil then 2.4 90 XS
1968 1/32 scale Britains 109 Pick up.

11th Oct 2011 10:45am

DefenderOfTheEarth

Member Since: 09 Nov 2010
Location: Cornwall, UK
Posts: 1304

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Tonga Green

No joy with mine - new hub was needed.

Defender 110XS SW gone... now VW California 180 4 Motion.

11th Oct 2011 11:22am

Ninetenths

Member Since: 26 Mar 2009
Location: Sarf Lundun
Posts: 161

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Java Black

James French had to cut mine off with burning gear.

edit; Disco hub is the same apparently so might be easier to source second hand. Pimped black '07 Puma
Equally Pimped Black Pick up Truck

Rollin deep

11th Oct 2011 11:38am

Grockle

Member Since: 24 Nov 2008
Location: Peak District National Park
Posts: 2266

Ninetenths wrote:
James French had to cut mine off with burning gear.

edit; Disco hub is the same apparently so might be easier to source second hand.

yes, but what about ya flange bolts ? 2.4 90 XS
1968 1/32 scale Britains 109 Pick up.

11th Oct 2011 2:11pm

willy eckerslike

Member Since: 15 Jun 2009
Location: North yorks
Posts: 1789

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 HCPU Keswick Green

An ordinary HSS drill will probably run of centre due to the stud being harder in the centre, best to use a cobalt drill (keep it cold) on a slow speed. Faling that find a nut slightly too small for the stud and MIG weld the centre to the stud the heat will work wonders.

Original Member Pie n Pea Club.
110 HCPU Tipper

11th Oct 2011 3:17pm

BigMike

Member Since: 13 Jul 2010
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 2253

willys nut idea is a good one. when I did mine it took nearly two hours and several drills. we got it out but it was a real pain.

11th Oct 2011 3:25pm

SteveT247

Member Since: 21 Feb 2011
Location: Central
Posts: 491

2002 Defender 90 Td5 XS CSW Bonatti Grey

Sorry to go slightly off topic but when did Land Rover switch from the washer to the threadlock? I'm guessing that if you wanted to switch back to washers yourself you would need to get slightly longer bolts than the standard part too?

11th Oct 2011 3:43pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17598

Welding a nut on won't work since the broken fragment is (as usual) recessed in the hole! Cobalt drill aligned with a pilot bush seems the way to go. I will get spare hub on hand just in case first, I think.

I have replaced my drive flange bolts with grade 10.9 (as the originals) hex socket head caps fitted with shakeproof washers and torqued down to the specified figure (all except, of course, the sheared one). I keep an eye on them, but have not had any issues with them loosening. This is in efect the same approach as on series vehicles. I suspect that the change to bolts preloaded with threadlocker was made for economic reasons rather than engineering reasons, since the old V8 vehicles (as far as I know) used spring washers. I think the unit cost of manufacture is lower this way than with the cost of a bolt plus washer. There may be automation reasons too (the bolts may be inserted by robot).

The reason for using socket heads, apart from being the easiest way to get 10.9 HT, is that the hex heads will foul Rakeway spacers if not at exactly the correct angle.

You do not need longer bolts - use M10 x 45mm grade 10.9 HT, same as the originals, except fit them dry. Make sure that you clean out the old gunk from the hole first, which is a damn sight harder to do than you expect, or else there is a very real risk of shearing or straining the bolt when you fit it.

11th Oct 2011 4:15pm

Happyoldgit

Member Since: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 3471

2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Corris Grey

I've successfully drilled out sheared drive flange bolts from earlier vehicles but not a Puma, you have my sympathies. Do you have access to reverse [left hand] drill bits as they might be worth a try. Steve.
Owned numerous Land Rover vehicles of all shapes and sizes over the decades.
Current Defender: A non tarts hand-bagged Puma 110 XS USW.

[Insert something impressive here such as extensive list of previous Land Rovers or examples of your prestigeous and expensive items, trinkets, houses, bikes, vehicles etc]

http://forums.lr4x4.com

I used to be Miserable ...but now I'm ecstatic.

11th Oct 2011 4:45pm

willy eckerslike

Member Since: 15 Jun 2009
Location: North yorks
Posts: 1789

http://www.langtoninfo.co.uk/showitem.aspx?isbn=0024721305206

Original Member Pie n Pea Club.
110 HCPU Tipper

11th Oct 2011 4:46pm

SteveT247

Member Since: 21 Feb 2011
Location: Central
Posts: 491

blackwolf wrote:
You do not need longer bolts - use M10 x 45mm grade 10.9 HT, same as the originals, except fit them dry. Make sure that you clean out the old gunk from the hole first, which is a damn sight harder to do than you expect, or else there is a very real risk of shearing or straining the bolt when you fit it.

Thanks

11th Oct 2011 5:00pm

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