 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Stock power limit |
 
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| ZeDefender Member Since: 15 Sep 2011 Location: Munich Posts: 4731   
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Quick question:
If the peak power is 122PS for all Pumas, is it limited passively or actively? In other words, is the stock engine simply physically incapable of producing more peak power (in which case Pumas should vary quite a lot), or does the ECU actively choke it? If power/torque are actively and precisely choked, presumably just fitting a bigger intercooler, turbo, EGR blank etc. with no remap won't have much noticeable effect... Good morning to all Matt Tell someone you love them today because life is short. But shout it at them in German because life is also terrifying and confusing... |
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5th Oct 2012 7:16am |
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| T1G UP Member Since: 08 Dec 2009 Location: Bath Posts: 3101  
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the ecu dictates the fuel...so the fuel dictates the power/ torque...upto a point.
plus there are quite a few obstacles that can easily be overcome to aid flow and as a result increase drivability / power / torque. de cat, inlet tract, intercooler to name a few |
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5th Oct 2012 7:18am |
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| ZeDefender Member Since: 15 Sep 2011 Location: Munich Posts: 4731
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So presumably, since I can read power/torque with the Scangauge, so can the ECU... and kill the fuel when it gets worried.
I wonder if bigger intercoolers etc. just help by "filling in" flatspots etc. My theory is that the peak power/torque is ECU limited but hardware tuning gets you to the top faster. Personal experiences would help me get my head around it  Tell someone you love them today because life is short.
But shout it at them in German because life is also terrifying and confusing... |
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5th Oct 2012 7:28am |
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| K9F Member Since: 12 Nov 2009 Location: Bournemouth Posts: 9610  
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Not sure if I've missed your point here but BHP and torque are increased with remaps above standard figures so that makes the engines capable of more?????
See below for examples: http://www.james-french.co.uk/aftersales/l...r-upgrades If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!! Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!! |
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5th Oct 2012 7:33am |
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| ZeDefender Member Since: 15 Sep 2011 Location: Munich Posts: 4731
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Cheers.
I know that power/torque is LR-software limited and remaps can "allow" engine parameters like turbo pressure, fuel rail pressure to increase above LR-desired values, even with no hardware changes. I'm wondering about the opposite: what happens if you beef up the hardware but keep the software the same? How/does it change performance? Tell someone you love them today because life is short. But shout it at them in German because life is also terrifying and confusing... |
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5th Oct 2012 7:41am |
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| K9F Member Since: 12 Nov 2009 Location: Bournemouth Posts: 9610
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I can only speak from personal experience and I do know that for example if you fit a decat pipe either on a remapped or stock vehicle that there is a noticable difference straight away on acceleration as it allows the turbo to 'spool up' quicker, so the answer would have to be yes....hardware can increase performance within standard software parameters. The decat is I would say the most 'cost effective' modification for increased performance in my opinion.
With regards to larger intercoolers, silicone hoses etc. I would be interested in feedback too on how different the vehicle is and if there are any significant gains to be had! If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!! Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!! |
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5th Oct 2012 7:48am |
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| ZeDefender Member Since: 15 Sep 2011 Location: Munich Posts: 4731
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Just heard from another member in a hot climate with no software mods.
Bigger intercooler makes massive difference to him (as expected from the hot weather point of view) but it also sounds as if it has significant effects on cooler days as well... It seems as though fuel consumption improves, as though as better response and pulling under load. No absolute figures but it does sound as though even within LR's "cage" there is a lot of room for improvement. So I'm just "Scangauging" different EGR blanking setups and then, eventually, an Allisport - still under warranty so have to be careful  Tell someone you love them today because life is short.
But shout it at them in German because life is also terrifying and confusing... |
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5th Oct 2012 8:25am |
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| K9F Member Since: 12 Nov 2009 Location: Bournemouth Posts: 9610
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I 'threw caution to the wind' and carried out all my 'performance enhancing' mods whilst still under warranty after due consideration and a hell of a lot of research. EGR valve blanking, stainless exhaust getting rid of backbox, Autologic remap, decat etc. etc. No regrets there whatsoever. I did however retain all my original parts for the warranty period just for peace of mind and my companion 'Justin.'
'Just in' case. 
I too would like an intercooler, pipes and possibly a hybrid turbo but have to refrain as I don't really do the current mileage to justify and with recent spending SWMBO must also be appeased somewhat.....   If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!
Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!! |
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5th Oct 2012 8:45am |
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| JWL Member Since: 26 Oct 2011 Location: Hereford Posts: 3443 
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A bit off topic but I wasn't in a position at the time to experience anything. When the Td5 went from non cat to having a cat fitted from 2002 onwards to meet eu regs, was there a noticable change in performance? I only ask because de-catting mine made quite a difference.
Just curious after all this talk with the apparent differences with the latest tdci's. |
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5th Oct 2012 8:50am |
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| Naks Member Since: 27 Jan 2009 Location: Stellenbosch, ZA Posts: 2646  
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Beyond the usual h/ware mods like de-cat, intercooler upgrade, etc., you have the s/ware remap, which also gives a power/torque boost
If you want to go beyond that, then you have to do some serious mods, like bigger turbo, new pistons, fuel pump, etc. But the durability is then on an inverse path to the power generated. -- 2010 Defender Puma 90 + BAS remap + Alive IC + Slickshift + Ashcroft ATB rear 2015 Range Rover Sport V8 Supercharged 
Defender Puma Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zZ1en9 Discovery 4 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zXrtKO Range Rover/Sport L320/L322/L494 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zc58JQ |
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5th Oct 2012 8:56am |
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| adafish Member Since: 30 Mar 2009 Location: atherstone Posts: 1385 
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you lot not read Porny's thread on here ?
 Putting Dreams on Drives at JLR Solihull.. |
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5th Oct 2012 11:22am |
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| ZeDefender Member Since: 15 Sep 2011 Location: Munich Posts: 4731
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Link please?
Couldn't find much concrete info on performance improvements/limits with better hardware but standard map Tell someone you love them today because life is short.
But shout it at them in German because life is also terrifying and confusing... |
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5th Oct 2012 11:44am |
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| adafish Member Since: 30 Mar 2009 Location: atherstone Posts: 1385
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try this... Defender 2.2 Tuning/Remap from IRB developments! Putting Dreams on Drives at JLR Solihull..
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5th Oct 2012 11:53am |
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| K9F Member Since: 12 Nov 2009 Location: Bournemouth Posts: 9610
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But the poster's got a 2.4 why would he read it.....
Also this thread isn't about mapping!
Without wishing to court controversy. There are loads of threads about remaps all professing by avid individuals to be the best (compared to what I don't know) but they are very rarely (if at all) backed up by facts and figures from a dyno...each vehicle is different I know but a before/after comparison against a standard one shouldn't be too difficult to produce.
Back on topic....Again I suppose each vehicle is different and operate in differing climes but a clear concise explanation of what benefits for example an intercooler would afford the purchaser in layman's terms would for me be most welcome. Loads of people sell them without much explanation. If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!! Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!! Last edited by K9F on 5th Oct 2012 12:09pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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5th Oct 2012 11:58am |
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| ZeDefender Member Since: 15 Sep 2011 Location: Munich Posts: 4731
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Perhaps I should explain further: I have a terrific remap from Alive but I still get intermittent shaking of the vehicle. Gary has gone to a lot of trouble and done a great job but obviously my 110 doesn't want to play nice
Therefore, I want to find out what we can do to improve performance of a 2.4 without remapping and what that improvement will be, from personal experience... "in layman's terms", as the venerable gentleman put it Tell someone you love them today because life is short.
But shout it at them in German because life is also terrifying and confusing... |
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5th Oct 2012 12:09pm |
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