 | Home > Technical > Does rust stop? |
 
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| ZeDefender Member Since: 15 Sep 2011 Location: Munich Posts: 4731   
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Okay, ignoring A-Level chemistry and all that theoretical bunkum about rust needing oxygen and water:
If I clean off all the loose rust from a door sill (and don't treat it) and cover it in something like Sikaflex to prevent water or oxygen from getting to it, will it continue rusting underneath? That's probably an unbelievably stupid question but Google was unbelievably useless... Tell someone you love them today because life is short. But shout it at them in German because life is also terrifying and confusing... |
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23rd Jul 2012 9:33pm |
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| K9F Member Since: 12 Nov 2009 Location: Bournemouth Posts: 9610  
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Don't ignore it! The answer lies in your question. 
No! But make sure it's bone dry with no air bubbles. Also why not treat it before you Sikaflex it?...Fertan is a great rust killer. http://www.classic-oils.net/Product-340/Ga...-Convertor If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!! Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!! |
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23rd Jul 2012 9:55pm |
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| ZeDefender Member Since: 15 Sep 2011 Location: Munich Posts: 4731
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Thanks guys - it was just a bit hard to believe with all the rust-horror stories you hear.
I will fit my last stainless sill (in the dry, after Kurust treatment) with some Sikaflex and peace of mind Tell someone you love them today because life is short.
But shout it at them in German because life is also terrifying and confusing... |
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23rd Jul 2012 10:09pm |
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| JWL Member Since: 26 Oct 2011 Location: Hereford Posts: 3443  
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Ah c'mon, Defenders are like sugar.........they're hygroscopic!
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23rd Jul 2012 10:10pm |
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| ZeDefender Member Since: 15 Sep 2011 Location: Munich Posts: 4731
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Don't you mean "carbohygrates"?  Tell someone you love them today because life is short.
But shout it at them in German because life is also terrifying and confusing... |
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23rd Jul 2012 10:14pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20348
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Kurust should sort it for you providing you remove all traces of the rust already present. $W33T $0U7H3RN $UG4R
🇬🇧🏴🏴🏴🇮🇪🇺🇸⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪 |
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24th Jul 2012 9:37am |
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| T1G UP Member Since: 08 Dec 2009 Location: Bath Posts: 3101 
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there are a few tidy td5s and santanas over here that haven't got must rust. moistures the killer
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24th Jul 2012 9:41am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17372 
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As stated by others above, the rust will stop provided you remove all the necessary conditions from the substrate. In practical terms since rust is porous, it is essential that you remove all existing rust before painting. In the case of light surface rust, cleaning it off with abrasives is fine, but in the case of heavier rust you would be foolish not to use chemical treatment since it is in effectively impossible to remove all the old rust by other means (the exsting rust will trap the moisture/oxygen needed for rust to continue).
All chemical treatments are in effect acid based, and IIRC convert the existing third oxide of iron, namely rust (ferric oxide, Fe2O3) to the much more stable second oxide of iron, ferrous oxide (FeO) which provdes an extremely stable surface. Fertan is one such treatment (using, I think, Tannic acid, presumably hence the name), but other options are available. On major steam restorations I have carried out I have used a dilute organo-phosphoric acid supplied expressly for surface preparation prior to painting, which has two benefits. Firstly it converts any remaining rust to forrous oxide, and secondly it provides a lightly etched surface ideal for taking the primer. The acid should be brushed on lightly, just enough to dampen the surface (no runs) and when dry, 'scotchbrighted' to grey. Primer and subsequent colour coats should then be applied in the normal way. This results in an extremely durable finish which meets industry adhesion standards. I appreciate that this may be of little relevance since most Defender owners won't want to buy a 5-gallon carboy of acid, but the off-the-shelf products (like Fertan) shoudl give as good results albeit at a much higher cost per square metre. |
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24th Jul 2012 12:05pm |
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| ZeDefender Member Since: 15 Sep 2011 Location: Munich Posts: 4731
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Wow - you're like "the Lorryman100 of rust"
Obviously, there is a right way (your way) to do these things (and I will) but just out of interest, when you say "the existing rust will trap the moisture/oxygen needed for rust to continue", how much will it continue if there is only a little bit of moisture/air trapped and the surface is sealed in (e.g. with Sikaflex)? Won't the rust stop pretty quickly? This was really my original question... but I'm not always clear  Tell someone you love them today because life is short.
But shout it at them in German because life is also terrifying and confusing... |
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24th Jul 2012 12:46pm |
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| K9F Member Since: 12 Nov 2009 Location: Bournemouth Posts: 9610
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Ze,
Having gone to the trouble of stripping/prepping the area, why would you NOT treat it? Unless your uncontrollable urge to fit and the lack of a suitable rust treatment to hand is fighting against the sensible thing to do. In which case I fully understand and sympathise wholeheartedly!
Wait and treat would be best! If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!
Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!! |
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24th Jul 2012 12:53pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17372
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The answer to the first question ("how much will it continue") is that it will continue until there's nothing left to rust, if untreated. As soon as the rust starts up again the paint will come off, the rust will accelerate, more paint will come off, etc. Any residual rust will inevitably lead to more rust, and rust will spread quite happily underneath the paint surface. As to "won't the rust stop pretty quickly" the answer is no, unless you remove it completely or convert it into something other than rust. Sadly, as a great many people have found over the years, there is no easy cure to rust and half measures don't work. Plenty of things will slow down the spread of rust, but only hard work and elbow grease will stop it. Those of us who remember cars (especially British cars) of the 60's and 70's will appreciate that modern factory treatment is fantastic now compared to then, and we are actually quite lucky. My first car (a 1966 Triumph 2000 Mk1 estate) used to need new sills or other rust repairs every year for the MOT, until it simply got to the point that there was nothing left to weld new material to. I scrapped it when it was 20 years old. If you look at cars from 1992 you will find that now there are plenty which are completely rust-free still. Not Land-Rovers, admittedly, but you have only to look at a Defender to see that the 1960's are alaive and well! It is, after all, why we love them! |
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24th Jul 2012 2:18pm |
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| ZeDefender Member Since: 15 Sep 2011 Location: Munich Posts: 4731
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Thank you all
All the info has been extremely helpful.
Believe it or not, one of the main reasons I bought the Audi A2 is because it is aluminium and the frame won't rust. All my previous cars rusted to pieces and I thought the Defender wouldn't rust either   
Thanks to Zagato I've started spraying everything with ACF and gradually all the leaky seals are being replaced and the corrosion treated/prevented. But I'm slightly paranoid (TBH one of the reasons for the post) because I've got one last Entreq stainless sill to fit and I've noticed a bit of rust where I'll fit it. I'll deal with it but I don't think I checked the others carefully enough 
Trying to decide whether I should take them all off again... Tell someone you love them today because life is short. But shout it at them in German because life is also terrifying and confusing... |
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24th Jul 2012 3:00pm |
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| T1G UP Member Since: 08 Dec 2009 Location: Bath Posts: 3101
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be careful fitting s/s product with steel, ali
read this...very interesting Lasagne part! http://www.bodyshopbusiness.com/Article/31...ation.aspx |
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24th Jul 2012 4:22pm |
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| o4dn Member Since: 08 Jan 2010 Location: South West Posts: 538  
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On the same topic of fitting S/S
http://www.landroverweb.com/landrover/stai...-any-good/ |
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24th Jul 2012 5:23pm |
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